Stripped Down 200GY wiring diagram for the Phoenix

[tankme]

Hello all,
I have been weeding out unnecessary wires in the loom on this bike -ie lights, horns, etc. I have been updating the wiring diagram I have been going off of and have arrived at a point where I need to ask questions about what must remain. I'll post my updated diagram at the bottom.

For example: What is the bleeding resistor? Do I need it?
What is the Diode at the bottom of the diagram? Do I need it?
Do I need the clutch switch? The console is already gone, and thus the light for neutral is gone already as well.

Can I simplify the key switch with a simple 2 wire on/off switch? I am also moving the start button (after rewiring it) from the handlebar to somewhere else.

At the bottom is the gear sensor and it's wire harness. It has a whole wad of wires that come out of the engine and went to the front of the bike where there are no longer any electronics. Can I unplug it altogether and just leave the wiring harness attached to the engine?

And if I said I would find it useful to have a cigarette lighter/accessory plug on the bike for 12v accessories would that be an issue? And is it as simple as tapping into a green and a black wire for power? I would only plan use of accessories if the bike is running as I also plan to scale down the battery requirement to handle just turning the starter motor over.

Woot I think I hit a new record for the number of questions in one post!
Thanks for all the answers!!
Jim

[tankme]

I thought it might help to post the wiring diagram before I started hacking. It's been right on correct except I had no alarm system. It may have never had one because the white/black wire that goes into it [the alarm] from the kill switch is a continuous one all the way to the rectifier bundled neatly in what I think is the original harness.

I also suspect this bike was hot wired at some point because of the location of plastic and wire damage, and the plastic tube it was housed in was broken apart, and it all was broken from the console...either way I am wanting it replaced with a simple on/off switch.

Anyway here's the original I started from below. I think it's the same one Weldandgrind has been using on the new Lifan.

Thanks!
Jim

[humanbeing]

Get rid of the resistor. Modern "off" type rectifier had more advantage. Saving more fuel when there's NO 12v load. The "traditional" one just turns unnecessary into heat.
http://www.motorfans.com.cn/bbs/t_17323850.htm | http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=13386488176
---
On/off switch ONLY. -BAD idea. Anyone can took it for a joy ride.

[tankme]

Thanks for the direction Humanbeing, I will add an up to date rectifier to the big parts list I have going. Is this the kind of thing someone should buy 2 or 3 of to have on hand?

And I will do the additional removals tomorrow.

Heh a bigger problem to me is losing the key! If the probability of encounters with dogs, high/barbed wire fences and loaded guns don't stop someone from attempting to take it then lack of a key won't be that much of a deterrent.

Thanks for the info! More steps closer to having an afternoon ride in the hills!
Jim

[pete]

Diode............

you need it if yer running a electric starter...

the starter button is so small that it is unable to
handle DC current...
So AC current is taken from the stator though the start button
to the starter relay
the diode is a one way link between the DC & AC current
so DC & AC don't come in contact with each other...

If DC current goes though the start button.... by by start
button very quicky....

[humanbeing]

Found the correct terms at http://forum.jorsindo.com/thread-2407526-3-1.html 40# 43#
http://www.shindengen.co.jp/product_e/electro/reg.html The 1 i mentioned [#3] is in the bottom.
---
The traditional "shunt type" isn't that hard to build. For Japanese "big" bike: http://motorcycle.sh.cn/t_17743001_1.htm

[tankme]

Thanks Humanbeing, I like lots of facts, only then does knowledge seem to stick. Thanks!

Pete: Ok I'll leave it and re-bundle it up with the remaining wires. Thanks!

I am close to being done removing wires I think, I don't really have to remove anything else, just retape it all back up. After I change the ignition switch and put a new button for starting on it.

I am almost ready to get back to rewiring the starter for a test run.

Thanks again!
Jim

[tankme]

Hello all,
When I am stalled on the ATV rehab I work on the Zong. Lately it is attempting to answer one last question. What Green type wire to attach the starter to?

In the diagram there is a Dark Green with Red stripe wire coming from the starter relay to the Diode. If I understand right I am looking for A/C power from the starter relay to connect to the starter. I think this is the Dk Green wire, can anyone confirm before I melt a starter button?

Thanks!!! Man this one is so close to riding!
Jim

[Weldangrind]

Originally Posted by tankme

What Green type wire to attach the starter to?

Huh?

Let's move away from the diagram for a moment. The starter relay (or solenoid) operates on DC. My guess is that when the key is on, the small gauge positive wire to the solenoid is hot. When you press the starter button, you will complete the ground wire to the solenoid (again, a guess).

Notice that the large gauge red wire from the battery goes straight to the solenoid, which means it only needs to be energized by the two small wires to spin the starter.

Make sense?

[tankme]

I am following this information Pete typed in earlier:

Diode............

you need it if yer running a electric starter...

the starter button is so small that it is unable to
handle DC current...
So AC current is taken from the stator though the start button
to the starter relay
the diode is a one way link between the DC & AC current
so DC & AC don't come in contact with each other...

If DC current goes though the start button.... by by start
button very quicky....

----
To me from this explanation I am looking for the A/C line to connect into, which to me turns out to be the regular green backbone to the harness. Is it true that the Green/White that changes to Green from the stator providing this A/C pulse and this is what I am looking for to finalize the starter wiring?

Still trying to connect the dots,
Jim

Jim

[Weldangrind]

I'm not saying that our good friend Pete is mistaken, I'm saying that my understanding is different.

A solenoid takes very little current to latch, and it's designed to latch with a small starter switch. The contacts that close inside the solenoid are carrying the heavy current load, which connects the large gauge battery wire to the large gauge starter wire.

If you like, you can confirm the design by applying power directly to the small gauge wires at the solenoid. When you do, the starter should begin to spin.

[tankme]

Hmm, I think I am looking for something else. I suppose the simple thing I am asking in order to test the relay, start, complete the wiring and finish etc, is what green wire am I tapping for power for the starter?

Is it as I am guessing-any part of the grounded green backbone? Or somewhere else? Does the green wire in the harness represent A/C anywhere on the harness? And anything attached to it is A/C? These are the subtle facts that will help me learn.

I think I asked before but didn't get an answer---Can I unplug the whole harness coming from the gear selector at the plug and remove it from the bike? None of those wires now seem to have anything up front to plug into and would simplify my question even more.

Thanks!
Jim

[humanbeing]

Most vertical chonda is similar to this Honda

[Weldangrind]

I'll try harder to answer your question properly. Green is ground, not AC. To my knowledge, no part of the system uses green for AC.

Back to the circuit: when you turn the key on, there will be a positive wire to the solenoid (that is a small gauge) which is hot. It is safer to switch the ground than the hot, so the green wire runs through the starter button. Make sense?

Go ahead and unplug the gear selector wires. You don't need them for your purpose.

Have I answered your questions properly?

[tankme]

Hee hee it's not answering properly, it's getting through the dense shell of my head until it gets understood and absorbed. Thank you for your patience and reiteration.

And you have uncovered another fact I did not exactly know, that Green is ground, not a current carrier. And if I have finally connected the dots, the Red/Yellow wire is the current carrier that makes the circuit for the starter relay. The green is the ground contact for that, that completes the circuit when the button is pushed and allows current over the red/yellow wire to the relay. Do I have it closer now?

Humanbeing: I am looking at the upper left quadrant. Across the top from left to right: Fuse, Ignition Switch, start button, starter relay, Then underneath those there is some switch, Magneto w/diode?, and starter motor. Right? What's the switch in the second row? Clutch? Brake? And to that would being able to kickstart it mean I have neither a brake, or clutch switch already?

Oh and I think also through this conversation I understand more about the kill switch and the CDI relationship, so thanks for that too! I think I feel as though I am making progress. I will attempt a start tomorrow and let you know how it went.

Thanks again for your patience.
Jim