Fuel Injection for Zongshen 200 CG

[Jibberwobble]

Hi guys, It’s been a while again! Plans went very wrong last year when the bottom fell out of my overtime, the sidecar rebuild project along with racing in general went out the window. The Zongshen 200 powered outfit has been getting a lot of love over past months though and not having the money to go racing anyway has given me plenty of thinking time to consider a lot of aspects and ergonomic practicalities of how we will operate in the field (not a ploughed field obviously). I’ll get a thread up in the next few days.

As work continues I am still trying to decide what to do with the carb. I’ve moved the motor forward and tilted it forward as much as I can but I’m now seated further forward too so the problem of me laying on the carb is still present. It basically wont fit in the space available or it gets choked or blocked off if I move it elsewhere.

I did eventually get hold of this adjustable CDI unit as per recommendations from Humanbeing. I never got as far as trying to work out how to wire it up though but as it happens I may not need it now because…………………………..

I came across this nice little Fuel injection system on Taobao

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...&id=1973544318

It would seem these people are paying quite a lot of attention to getting the details right and want to know the engine type, size and model plus intended use. This makes me think they may know what they are doing and could this be the answer to my problems? It could be mounted at any angle and I’d be able to get it in the space available and feed it from a pressurised airbox. The ECU seems to be quite clever (or so they say) self-learning and setting up via computer, tab, phone via Bluetooth! I see there is a normal looking CDI box in the kit but don’t know if the ECU replaces the need to have the an adjustable CDI?
So does anyone have any experience of this or similar EFI systems they could advise me on? I am puzzled how it gets the mixture right, could it just be worked out from head temp and airflow meter? They say you don’t need to run the Lamda sensor if not on the road.

They also have this oil cooler set up which looks neat and tidy, same as above, anyone with any experience?

If I use TB trends to buy this thing it’s going to be a bit of a gamble that they translate all the right information over to the seller so I get the right bits don’t you think?

[Jibberwobble]

Ah, just found this so will have a read - http://www.chinariders.net/showthrea...fuel+injection

[Weldangrind]

You found Ron's thread before I could point to it. He's the man.

What was your final cost on the programmable CDI?

[Jibberwobble]

Hi Weld

Well I've had a read through that and currently digesting.

To be honest I forget what I paid for the adjustable CDI but something like 65GBP all in rings a bell. It feels like a nice quality bit of kit but hadn't figured out what I needed to do to get it working. Now I will have a proper look into this EFI system as a preference.

[Weldangrind]

Does your CDI have a USB connection? Did it come with software?

[Jibberwobble]

Yes and yes. I'll get some snaps. Its dc not ac so that would need accommodating.

From what I can tell you can have a laptop plugged in whilst running. You configure it via lap top as opposed to an adjuster screw or similar.

[Jibberwobble]

Some of this may mean something to you. There's a lot of things I dont understand about all this jiggery pokery but very keen to learn, I get the basics but can easily find myself a bit lost.

[Weldangrind]

Our good friend Humanbeing would be the best source of knowledge.

[Jibberwobble]

Well I'm now on my way to getting this EFI system built and tailored for my needs to Recracer and Mr. YX Yang from FAI. To be honest dealing with my new Chinese friend is easier than dealing with your average company in the uk. The uk sucks on many levels

[Weldangrind]

I'm looking forward to many details. Please overload us with tech.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

I'm looking forward to many details. Please overload us with tech.

X2 on both counts.

[recracer]

I am signed up . Should be an interesting project .

[Jibberwobble]

Well I can try but must admit that when it comes to electrickery I need to try hard to keep up.

The main thing that seems to differ from what Recracer has is that my fuel tank is/going to be on the floor and I cant come straight out the back of the engine with the manifold/throttle body.

Mr Yang has suggested I use components from the scooter set up they do. My fairing/centre console is just behind the engine, pretty much about where the mouth of the carb would have been, could of cut a hole in the fairing but then I would have been laying on it and blanking it off hence the need for something different.

The scoot motors cylinder lays flat so needs a bent manifold to bring the carb etc back to level, the EFI system needs fill the same space so it too has a 45deg(ish) bend in the manifold and has the injector nozzle mounted right at the engine flange end pointing straight down at the inlet valve. If the injector was mounted on the straight piece of tube beside the throttle body the spray would of had to go up the venturi and round the bend before entering the engine, this is not so good says MR Yang.

In addition the plumbing is much easier for me to set up in my situation. On Rons bike he has the vapour separator and filter mounted into the bottom of the tank where as on my system these parts will be separate so can be mounted where convenient. With my tank being on the deck I will need to pump the fuel up, was going to use a header tank for gravity feed but with the scooter set up Mr Yang thinks I can use my pump connected straight to the EFI system as its a very low pressure pump designed to be connected straight to a carb.

I've got some diagrams but think I should seek permission before posting them up.

Gotta run now.......

Laters

[Jibberwobble]

Sorry for the lack of updates guys, been talking with Mr Yang from FAI every day for what seems like ages now. I havent got it all sewn up yet but almost there now.

I'm in full on panic mode trying to get the sidecar + four race bikes for the kids ready for the season opener in March so spending every last minute researching parts on the internet or building stuff in the freezing workshop which is hovering at about 6.5 deg C just now and yes I am using a heater too!

The EFI system it's self is all wrapped up I think. We then got talking about the flywheel timing and I thought it may be worth asking if FAI sell modified flywheels. They said they would be happy to sort one out and machine it to send with the rest of the system but needed to confirm what was on my engine. Although there are loads of units on Taobao that look similar Mr yang was preferring to get an OE part from Zongshen directly. They don’t make parts for my engine anymore apparently, its about 7 – 8 years old I think. So without me wanting to get involved with time consuming discussions with TB traders trying to work out if all those other CG flywheels on there are the same or not, I told Mr Yang to hold fire if he wasn’t confident he could lay his hands on the right part without too much greif. This was because by this time we had got onto talking about the AC DC thing. After a nice chat about what our favourite ACDC tune was (yes yes just kidding) it became apparent that I would need to convert the Zonger to DC for the EFI system and he wasn’t sure the currently available Zong parts would fit. I thought it best to leave the poor guy alone regarding all these complications for a bit although he doesn’t seem to mind my constant questions and I had already mentioned my other plan to him anyway………..

New plan, I wanted to get another motor, what I want is the KTM220 Duke lump but this inst going to happen anytime soon so I was tending towards getting another china engine to have a play with and then keep the old Zonger as a spare. I can gather dc conversion parts for it as I go. Then the idea is to get a flywheel for the new engine sent to FAI. This will save me some precious time.

So the new candidate is this little beauty. Haoyue 190.........

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=12499971385

It comes with a counter balance and non counter balance shaft option. The difference being the large growth hanging off the front and messing up the lower mount position. So my quandary is do I go for the balance shaft version or not? Will it help me in my situation? Lots of hard thrashing that is! Will it sap power or will it's extra smooth and loveliness let the engine wind up better? Hmm. I'm thinking to go for the non BS mainly to allow quick engine changes on the same mounts as the CG. What y'all think?

[Weldangrind]

I agree; installation challenges and parasitic power losses would result from the counter-balanced engine.

Mr. Humanbeing has the DC thing all figured out.