Templar M

[Thumper]

The addition of the Templar X with 6 speed got everyone thinking (I assume) that it would be better than the 2022 Templar X 5 speed.

But here is the truth... Templar is an ENDURO that is street legal. It is NOT a dual purpose bike like the Lifan KPX 250, or any of the myriad 14 hp ZS167FMM based bikes like the Hawk, Titan, Brozz, etc. Yes, Titan is similar, but has that ZS167 engine (14hp) and a 428 chain. It is a nice engine, but the 19hp ZS172 is much more adequate for an enduro.

The Templar is aimed at off road market. It comes with street legal lights, so you can get to the trail, but if you want a road bike, get a Brozz 250, a Hawk, or a KPX 250. None of these will perform as well as any Templar when you leave the pavement.

In other words, the new 6 speed Templar X doesn't improve on the offroad capability of the original 5 speed Templar X. Mainly because who needs to go more than 50mph if you are riding a dedicated enduro? And the frame on these Temps inspire confidence in tough trail situations, when you are goin less than 20mph.

The Templar M has the~20hp 5 speed ZS 172FMM 249cc engine, coupled to an accurately focused geared down 13T front sprocket coupled to a 49T rear sprocket. It is like a TWO WHEELED TRACTOR, NOT FAST. No delay carburetor performance is rewarding. But believe me, in the trails, this combination kicks a@@ Well, it's fun !

I am teetering on ordering a Temp M for my son. He has already learned how to handle rocky sections on my original Bashan Storm (with knobby conversion -DSport Adventure tour), with washout troughs, limbs, mucky interludes, steep pitches, steep climbs with rocks. He is ready for a real enduro bike. The road is how you get to the fun. But rough trails will make you pause, even stop, unless you are on a real enduro. Dual sport tires are really just road tires. Go off road and they will punish you. No kidding. Get ready to be smacked down when they wash out. Drop down with knobbies on a enduro? It is your fault, NOT the tires, or the bike.

Maybe I can lower the Templars with linkage. That would make it easier to mount. Once on the thing though, the height is useful offroad (it is an enduro).

FWIW

[tknj99]

I agree with your assessments of the Templar X 6 speed but with some counterpoints that apply to me from experience.. the Titan is more similar to a Templar than a Hawk/Brozz/Storm etc, definitely more of a dirtbike.. i sold it in favor of the Templar X - 6 for the main reason of that 6th gear and being able to cruise faster than 60mph. With the Titan geared at 14/42 i maxed out (speedo not GPS) at like 65mph.. with the TempX i can now max out closer to 75mph at 13/42 gearing. It's still geared low enough for me to handle any offroad situations and allows me to ride the 55 and 60mph roads that connect the trails and gravel roads without having to worry about being run off the road. I think thats the beauty of a plated DS, being able to explore anywhere and travel further to the fun spots.. with that being said, no way Jose will i bring it on I-64 near me where its 70mph speed limit and everyone is going 80 or more lol

[Thumper]

The sixth gear does extend the bike's range for road use. So I see your logic for the ZS172 FMM-5 (6-speed). The Temp M is a bargain at $1600 right now. There are ways to modify suspension (fork oil weight, rear shock linkage changes or replacement). But you might find that it doesn't need to be changed. Temp X adds adjustable suspension and 6th gear for $250-300, if you catch one when they are in stock! I still like the concept of the Temp M. Incredible price for a competent entry level enduro. I never would have bought my Storm if it was available a year and a half ago. It wasn't that long ago!

[DR@G0NR1DR]

Originally Posted by Thumper

The sixth gear does extend the bike's range for road use. So I see your logic for the ZS172 FMM-5 (6-speed). The Temp M is a bargain at $1600 right now. There are ways to modify suspension (fork oil weight, rear shock linkage changes or replacement). But you might find that it doesn't need to be changed. Temp X adds adjustable suspension and 6th gear for $250-300, if you catch one when they are in stock! I still like the concept of the Temp M. Incredible price for a competent entry level enduro. I never would have bought my Storm if it was available a year and a half ago. It wasn't that long ago!

What oil weight would you use in the forks, and what would you replace the rear shock with so it’s adjustable?

[Hap]

Originally Posted by DR@G0NR1DR

What oil weight would you use in the forks, and what would you replace the rear shock with so it’s adjustable?

As far as fork oil goes. 5wt. Is generally what’s in the shock from the factory. If you want less rebound you will want heavier weight oil. For the rear shock. There has got to be a sea of used Japanese 520 mm dirt bike rear shocks out there that you could replace your shock with for cheap. Good ones adjustable if you prefer. That’s what I was going to do if I wasn’t satisfied with the factory Templar M shocks. Turns out I was able to get the X.

[DR@G0NR1DR]

Originally Posted by Hap

As far as fork oil goes. 5wt. Is generally what’s in the shock from the factory. If you want less rebound you will want heavier weight oil. For the rear shock. There has got to be a sea of used Japanese 520 mm dirt bike rear shocks out there that you could replace your shock with for cheap. Good ones adjustable if you prefer. That’s what I was going to do if I wasn’t satisfied with the factory Templar M shocks. Turns out I was able to get the X.

Thank you sir! I wouldn’t mind being able to adjust on my temp M. It just seems like it sags too much when I’m sitting on it and running around, weighing in about 195. But this is my first bike and I’m not for sure how it should sit or ride.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by DR@G0NR1DR

What oil weight would you use in the forks, and what would you replace the rear shock with so it’s adjustable?

NICE orange Temp M. Real NICE!!

Fork Oil??

I replaced the original fork oil in my Bashan Storm inverted forks with Motul 15W ("medium/heavy"), and it did wonders for control and stiffened the front end nicely. I would bet that it will do the same for the forks on the Temp M.

[Hap]

Will the Templar M max out around 70 with the 13/42 sprocket set up? Without making the gears too long for trails. I’m really thinking about getting the Temp M but I would really like to be able to travel a paved road now and then without getting ran over. And not have to be WOT the whole way.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Hap

Will the Templar M max out around 70 with the 13/42 sprocket set up? Without making the gears too long for trails. I’m really thinking about getting the Temp M but I would really like to be able to travel a paved road now and then without getting ran over. And not have to be WOT the whole way.

Nutcracker is building a second rear wheel for higher speed duty. If you switch to a 42t rear sprocket, you will be in the range of acceptable offroad and two lane road use. Fourlane?, Well, I won't go there no matter how fast my dirt bike might go! It will probably make 70mph, but a dirt bike shouldn't be doing this

[Hap]

[QUOTE=Thumper;385870]Nutcracker is building a second rear wheel for higher speed duty. If you switch to a 42t rear sprocket, you will be in the range of acceptable offroad and two lane road use. Fourlane?, Well, I won't go there no matter how fast my dirt bike might go! It will probably make 70mph, but a dirt bike shouldn't be doing this [/

That would be plenty of top end for me. Thank you again, Thumper! You have been very helpful!

[Maiville06]

So quick question. I have a creaking noise coming from the lower bearing in the steering head. Would that be a bad bearing or what can I do to fix it? I’m kinda new to all this so just trying to up keep to make it last longer.

[Thumper]

You may have to regrease those bearings. Hard to be certain exactly what's making the noise. Simple answer would be dry bearings.

[Maiville06]

So I tore the front off. When I am going over a bump or driving around at my house I am hearing a creaking sound. From where I can hear it is the lower steerhead bracket. I took it all apart the bearing is well packed with grease and so is the upper. Put all back together and still hearing this sound. Does anyone know what size bearings these are? Only thing I can think is to replace bearing and seals and see if that fixes my problem but I have no clue how big the bearings are other than top is smaller than the bottom one.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Maiville06

...
... Only thing I can think is to replace bearing and seals and see if that fixes my problem but I have no clue how big the bearings are other than top is smaller than the bottom one.

I don't think it can be the bearings if they are packed with grease. Maybe the bearing race(s) is (are) flexing. Can you minimize it by tightening the bearings a bit more (steering head)?

I have noticed a few creaks and cracks in the frame/suspension on my X when I get on it or move it around in the garage. I chaulk it up to some broad tolerances on components... things like imperfect bushing fit, minor lateral movement on suspension components on their shafts. These are things that wouldn't be tolerated on a high end modern motorcycle. My KTM frame/suspension is flawlessly quiet and taught, which translates to additional confidence in tight situations if I am trying to punch above my weight But the KTM retailed at $5000 more than the Templar, so I don't fault the Templar for not being a race-ready machine!

[Maiville06]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I don't think it can be the bearings if they are packed with grease. Maybe the bearing race(s) is (are) flexing. Can you minimize it by tightening the bearings a bit more (steering head)?

I have noticed a few creaks and cracks in the frame/suspension on my X when I get on it or move it around in the garage. I chaulk it up to some broad tolerances on components... things like imperfect bushing fit, minor lateral movement on suspension components on their shafts. These are things that wouldn't be tolerated on a high end modern motorcycle. My KTM frame/suspension is flawlessly quiet and taught, which translates to additional confidence in tight situations if I am trying to punch above my weight But the KTM retailed at $5000 more than the Templar, so I don't fault the Templar for not being a race-ready machine!

So I should be good then?