Ive tried to figure out which bike, still trying

patrickjohn · 01-02-2019, 10:34 PM

I been on this site for almost a full day looking around reading, searching. I have read the "read this before posting" but both of the links were dead for FAQ and Tech info, I was hoping to find my info there. Ive also searched many terms but i havent found what I need. My question is what bike would you recomend for what I want? The names are confusing and im making a spread sheet to seperate disect and differentiate them, henisn hawk, bashan storm, bashan enforcer, apollo bsr, brozz 250, shark 250, magician 250.. etc. I see that many look similar or are very similar. Something that stands out to me is the counterbalanced engine. Which of these bikes have the counter balanced engine? Are there two main honda clone engines? gs230 and gc230? I would prefer rear disk brake and better forks with a bias twoards off road but I can be swayed. Mainly I want to know which ones have counter balanced engines for relaibilty. I know theres a bunch of questions in here but if you can answer just one or give me a usefull recourcse to find it myself thank you! Until then i will keep searching lol, thanks again.

off road
counter balanced engine
rear disc
heavier forks
street legal

Sochin · 01-02-2019, 11:25 PM

Your bike sounds like a CSC TT250 if you want a bike ready to ride and needs little to no improvement.

https://store.cscmotorcycles.com/CSC...tt250-2018.htm

elkhunter338 · 01-02-2019, 11:40 PM

CSC TT250 from what I have research should be great bike for trail riding and all around just decent. Sounds like if you are going to ride almost 100% dirt new more aggressive tires might be in order. I am planning to order one as soon as I get my motor cycle endorsement. Should be 1st week of March.

patrickjohn · 01-02-2019, 11:54 PM

Im slowly figuring all these names out. The storm has the counter balanced engine, apparently and according to other posts the ones that cost $1,340-$1,400 "hawk, enforcer" do not have counter balanced engines. Although in my reading some people argue it probabably doesnt make a big difference over all. I would hope the Storm is worth a little extra money but my first impression is the CSC TT250 may not be worth the extra money over the Storm. I definatly like it and want it but $1,719 vs $2,199 and ill probablly need two of these. All things considered its tempting to cheap out with the hawk/enforcer and just hope engine run a lil while. Im am a decent mecanic, not sure how much a replacment engine is but im reading they may just be hard to get or find new ones, swapping an engine is fine for me if a hawk blows up. Im reaserching the difference in the forks now, Storm/ Brozz has nice big forks where the hawk/enforcer look sketchy but mabye theyre fine idk. Rear drum doesnt really bother me. Also some have digital displays others have anolog instruments. Ill keep blogging, incase someone else is looking.

Megadan · 01-02-2019, 11:57 PM

The non counter balanced engines are plenty reliable. I don't know where the idea came from that they are not. The original Honda CG engine design was not counter balanced, and they are a work horse. There are benefits to having it, sure. Chief among which is less vibration through the bike, but even with a counter balancer you will still get a little bit of that.

As far as a bike that meets all of your criteria, the TT250 is the only bike on the market that really checks all of your boxes.

That said, it also really depends on our budget. There are some other very good bikes that would be better off road than the TT250, but they are also a tiny bit more expensive. SSR and Pitster Pro both have 250cc class bikes with much better suspension and hardware on them. The SSR XF250 is a little bit more street oriented but still decently off road capable. The Pitster Pro XTR T4 250 LC with the 21"/18" wheels. Both of these bikes come in around 2800-3000.

On the extreme end of the spectrum the LXR250F can still be purchased through some websites, and it comes with a host of great hardware, a liquid cooled engine making north of 25hp (rated 31) with a 6spd trans and EFI for $4000+.

From that point you get into GPX moto and then proper Japanese bike price territory.

As for your remark about the TT250 not being worth the extra money over a Storm. Yes, it is. The TT250 has a good warranty on it, and CSC has a great track record of taking care of their customers. It is also built to a better quality standard out of generally better materials (depending on the part). and has preload and rebound damping adjustments on it's suspension. It is indeed worth the extra money.

2LZ · 01-03-2019, 10:40 AM

All CG motors are reliable, counter balanced or not. I have both. The counterbalanced (TT250) is smoother. My Rhino is like riding a blender at certain R's.

Try not to put too much thought into this. Generally, a Hondoid is a Hondoid, regardless of name. Pick which configuration you'll prefer. I'm a big Storm fan but it has the smaller wheels if that makes a difference to you. I prefer the USD forks, rear disk and counter balanced CG motor. Many can live without the frills just fine.

Just keep in mind that NONE of these bikes will give you the dreamy ride and super-precise handling of a Japanese competitor. They are what they are. Reliable, fun, will get the job done and inexpensive, compared to the Big 4.

Just stay away from the Old World Hondoids that are still on the market.

PaiN · 01-03-2019, 11:16 AM

I agree that the CSC TT250 is the bike that meets your criteria...
I went with the Pitster Pro XTR 250 for its better suspension(since I'm close to 240lbs) and off-road abilities.

Mudflap · 01-03-2019, 11:39 AM

My preference is for the non counter balanced engine but it wouldn't be a deal breaker. All the CG engines should last a very long time but there are a few parts specific to the counterbalanced engine that do eventually wear out namely the oil pump chain and counterbalance cush gear.

I didn't find much difference in vibration when I had both types on my old Lifan 200. The Rhino ATV does indeed vibrate but I think that's mainly because of the lack of top engine mount and lots of plastic body parts.

Hard to beat the bikes from CSC even though they do cost a bit more. Licensing is easy, customer service is great, and they carry all the parts which is a big deal.

Weldangrind · 01-03-2019, 12:03 PM

As said so far, our good friends at CSC take care of their customers and provide a good product. I just purchased some parts from CSC and was impressed by the personal phone call I received to confirm the order.
All that said, the TT250 is still a China bike, so it will need love. Just like any other China bike, I'd encourage the owner to properly set up the bike, which means greasing the steering head, swingarm pivot, etc. I'd also encourage the application of Loctite to every fastener. Above all, a China bike requires a sense of humour; don't assume you can just throw your leg over the saddle and ride off into the sunset. Most of us here have properly prepared our bikes to be fun and reliable machines.

NzBrakelathes · 01-03-2019, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaiN

I agree that the CSC TT250 is the bike that meets your criteria...
I went with the Pitster Pro XTR 250 for its better suspension(since I'm close to 240lbs) and off-road abilities.

To be fair that Kayo/pitsterPro bike is all round a better bike, all aspect are a notice or 3 above the basic Hawk/Brazilian dirt bikes

patrickjohn · 01-03-2019, 08:56 PM

Thank you for all the input its appriciated. For more context I already have a CR125, warrior 350, 250ex, cbr600f4i, roadglide, crf80. So I already have allot of types of riding covered, what im.in the market for is a cheap dual purpose that i can legally ride on the street. I was sold on the enforcer since its allegedly epa/dot certified. I dont know what an "mco" is or why its important but im still searching. Anybody used "gokartsusa.com" recently? Found the enforcer db-41h-250 for $1,311 shipped , best deal ive seen. Would like to hear if anyones been robbed by them

Megadan · 01-03-2019, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickjohn

Thank you for all the input its appriciated. For more context I already have a CR125, warrior 350, 250ex, cbr600f4i, roadglide, crf80. So I already have allot of types of riding covered, what im.in the market for is a cheap dual purpose that i can legally ride on the street. I was sold on the enforcer since its allegedly epa/dot certified. I dont know what an "mco" is or why its important but im still searching. Anybody used "gokartsusa.com" recently? Found the enforcer db-41h-250 for $1,311 shipped , best deal ive seen. Would like to hear if anyones been robbed by them

The MCO is the Manufacturer Certificate of Origin. It is essentially a pre-title that designates the manufacturer and country of origindate of manufacture, it's VIN number, and vehicle type. It is a necessary document when going to register and/or title a vehicle.

As far as Gokartsusa.com, I personally have no experience with them. I don't think you are ever going to find an online seller with 100% positive reviews outside of CSC. I bought my last two Hawks through killermotorsports.com with great success, but there are a couple who had a bad experience. From all I could learn from gokartsusa, they have the same basic reputation. Mostly good, but a couple of bad.

The best advice I could give you is to order through them using a finance company or a credit card/credit service. This will give you buyer protection in case things do go south, because if all else fails you can file a claim through the bank. At that point, they don't have much power and you are almost always guaranteed your money back.

patrickjohn · 01-03-2019, 10:12 PM

Thanks MegaDan, good info

BBOWL10 · 01-04-2019, 02:39 PM

If a China bike was going to be my primary bike I would go with the CSC TT250. I bought the Hawk 250 because I wanted something to tinker with and make it better......something less expensive to tinker with than an old Japanese bike. The TT250 has many of these improvements and more plus it is EPA approved for most states. CSC sells their own brand of bikes not someone else’s that drop ships for them. They have more skin in the game when it comes to customer satisfaction because the quality control is on them. They can’t blame someone else. For what I have spent additionally so far on my Hawk I could have almost bought a CSC but I like wrenching.

Another option if you have decent credit is just go get a new Japanese bike for less than $115/mo. It will probably last you the next 20 years with minimal maintenance and repair.

Example:
https://www.teamcharlottemotorsports...=xNewInventory

My Hawk Upgrades:
Shinko Enduro Tires with HD Tubes
Mikuni Carb with new jets
Aftermarket exhaust with fiberglass wrap
Digital gauge cluster
New grips
LED headlight and tail light

ChipToothy · 01-04-2019, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBOWL10

Another option if you have decent credit is just go get a new Japanese bike for less than $115/mo.

I tried that. Waked in with a 554 credit score, full time job + pt job and a trade in (6 month old Storm) and they told me to go get bent and slashed my credit down to 537 with their hard inquiry.

My explorer was $450.00 per month for 36 months with $130.00 a month insurance but I can't afford a used 300cc motorcycle.. go figure.

01-02-2019, 10:34 PM	#1
patrickjohn Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: South Jersey Posts: 28	Ive tried to figure out which bike, still trying I been on this site for almost a full day looking around reading, searching. I have read the "read this before posting" but both of the links were dead for FAQ and Tech info, I was hoping to find my info there. Ive also searched many terms but i havent found what I need. My question is what bike would you recomend for what I want? The names are confusing and im making a spread sheet to seperate disect and differentiate them, henisn hawk, bashan storm, bashan enforcer, apollo bsr, brozz 250, shark 250, magician 250.. etc. I see that many look similar or are very similar. Something that stands out to me is the counterbalanced engine. Which of these bikes have the counter balanced engine? Are there two main honda clone engines? gs230 and gc230? I would prefer rear disk brake and better forks with a bias twoards off road but I can be swayed. Mainly I want to know which ones have counter balanced engines for relaibilty. I know theres a bunch of questions in here but if you can answer just one or give me a usefull recourcse to find it myself thank you! Until then i will keep searching lol, thanks again. off road counter balanced engine rear disc heavier forks street legal
	0

01-02-2019, 11:25 PM	#2
Sochin Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Montucky Posts: 209	Your bike sounds like a CSC TT250 if you want a bike ready to ride and needs little to no improvement. https://store.cscmotorcycles.com/CSC...tt250-2018.htm __________________ 1983 Honda Xl600R 2016 Ducati Multistrada 1200S DVT
	4

01-02-2019, 11:54 PM	#4
patrickjohn Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: South Jersey Posts: 28	Thanks for the reply Im slowly figuring all these names out. The storm has the counter balanced engine, apparently and according to other posts the ones that cost $1,340-$1,400 "hawk, enforcer" do not have counter balanced engines. Although in my reading some people argue it probabably doesnt make a big difference over all. I would hope the Storm is worth a little extra money but my first impression is the CSC TT250 may not be worth the extra money over the Storm. I definatly like it and want it but $1,719 vs $2,199 and ill probablly need two of these. All things considered its tempting to cheap out with the hawk/enforcer and just hope engine run a lil while. Im am a decent mecanic, not sure how much a replacment engine is but im reading they may just be hard to get or find new ones, swapping an engine is fine for me if a hawk blows up. Im reaserching the difference in the forks now, Storm/ Brozz has nice big forks where the hawk/enforcer look sketchy but mabye theyre fine idk. Rear drum doesnt really bother me. Also some have digital displays others have anolog instruments. Ill keep blogging, incase someone else is looking.
	0

01-02-2019, 11:57 PM	#5
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,034	The non counter balanced engines are plenty reliable. I don't know where the idea came from that they are not. The original Honda CG engine design was not counter balanced, and they are a work horse. There are benefits to having it, sure. Chief among which is less vibration through the bike, but even with a counter balancer you will still get a little bit of that. As far as a bike that meets all of your criteria, the TT250 is the only bike on the market that really checks all of your boxes. That said, it also really depends on our budget. There are some other very good bikes that would be better off road than the TT250, but they are also a tiny bit more expensive. SSR and Pitster Pro both have 250cc class bikes with much better suspension and hardware on them. The SSR XF250 is a little bit more street oriented but still decently off road capable. The Pitster Pro XTR T4 250 LC with the 21"/18" wheels. Both of these bikes come in around 2800-3000. On the extreme end of the spectrum the LXR250F can still be purchased through some websites, and it comes with a host of great hardware, a liquid cooled engine making north of 25hp (rated 31) with a 6spd trans and EFI for $4000+. From that point you get into GPX moto and then proper Japanese bike price territory. As for your remark about the TT250 not being worth the extra money over a Storm. Yes, it is. The TT250 has a good warranty on it, and CSC has a great track record of taking care of their customers. It is also built to a better quality standard out of generally better materials (depending on the part). and has preload and rebound damping adjustments on it's suspension. It is indeed worth the extra money. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	4

01-03-2019, 10:40 AM	#6
2LZ Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Volcano, Ca Posts: 7,096	All CG motors are reliable, counter balanced or not. I have both. The counterbalanced (TT250) is smoother. My Rhino is like riding a blender at certain R's. Try not to put too much thought into this. Generally, a Hondoid is a Hondoid, regardless of name. Pick which configuration you'll prefer. I'm a big Storm fan but it has the smaller wheels if that makes a difference to you. I prefer the USD forks, rear disk and counter balanced CG motor. Many can live without the frills just fine. Just keep in mind that NONE of these bikes will give you the dreamy ride and super-precise handling of a Japanese competitor. They are what they are. Reliable, fun, will get the job done and inexpensive, compared to the Big 4. Just stay away from the Old World Hondoids that are still on the market. __________________ "Light a fire for a man, and you heat him for a day. Light a man on fire, and you heat him for the rest of his life." 2007 Suzuki DRZ400S (SM convert) 2009 Q Link XP 200 1967 BSA B25 250cc Starfire 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 2023 Royal Enfield Scram 411 1948 Royal Enfield Model G 350
	2

01-02-2019, 11:40 PM	#3
elkhunter338 Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Oregon Posts: 81	CSC TT250 from what I have research should be great bike for trail riding and all around just decent. Sounds like if you are going to ride almost 100% dirt new more aggressive tires might be in order. I am planning to order one as soon as I get my motor cycle endorsement. Should be 1st week of March.
	1

01-03-2019, 11:16 AM	#7
PaiN Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: CT Posts: 130	I agree that the CSC TT250 is the bike that meets your criteria... I went with the Pitster Pro XTR 250 for its better suspension(since I'm close to 240lbs) and off-road abilities. __________________ "Talking about living life is nice and all....but a motorcycle is a tool to actually do it." -me You Tube: PaiN's Rides Currently riding the hell out of my 2013 Victory Cross Country.
	2

01-03-2019, 11:39 AM	#8
Mudflap Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,885	My preference is for the non counter balanced engine but it wouldn't be a deal breaker. All the CG engines should last a very long time but there are a few parts specific to the counterbalanced engine that do eventually wear out namely the oil pump chain and counterbalance cush gear. I didn't find much difference in vibration when I had both types on my old Lifan 200. The Rhino ATV does indeed vibrate but I think that's mainly because of the lack of top engine mount and lots of plastic body parts. Hard to beat the bikes from CSC even though they do cost a bit more. Licensing is easy, customer service is great, and they carry all the parts which is a big deal.
	2

01-03-2019, 12:03 PM	#9
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	As said so far, our good friends at CSC take care of their customers and provide a good product. I just purchased some parts from CSC and was impressed by the personal phone call I received to confirm the order. All that said, the TT250 is still a China bike, so it will need love. Just like any other China bike, I'd encourage the owner to properly set up the bike, which means greasing the steering head, swingarm pivot, etc. I'd also encourage the application of Loctite to every fastener. Above all, a China bike requires a sense of humour; don't assume you can just throw your leg over the saddle and ride off into the sunset. Most of us here have properly prepared our bikes to be fun and reliable machines. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	4

01-03-2019, 08:56 PM	#11
patrickjohn Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: South Jersey Posts: 28	Thank you for all the input its appriciated. For more context I already have a CR125, warrior 350, 250ex, cbr600f4i, roadglide, crf80. So I already have allot of types of riding covered, what im.in the market for is a cheap dual purpose that i can legally ride on the street. I was sold on the enforcer since its allegedly epa/dot certified. I dont know what an "mco" is or why its important but im still searching. Anybody used "gokartsusa.com" recently? Found the enforcer db-41h-250 for $1,311 shipped , best deal ive seen. Would like to hear if anyones been robbed by them
	0

01-03-2019, 10:12 PM	#13
patrickjohn Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: South Jersey Posts: 28	Thanks MegaDan, good info
	1

01-04-2019, 02:39 PM	#14
BBOWL10 Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Gastonia, NC Posts: 102	If a China bike was going to be my primary bike I would go with the CSC TT250. I bought the Hawk 250 because I wanted something to tinker with and make it better......something less expensive to tinker with than an old Japanese bike. The TT250 has many of these improvements and more plus it is EPA approved for most states. CSC sells their own brand of bikes not someone else’s that drop ships for them. They have more skin in the game when it comes to customer satisfaction because the quality control is on them. They can’t blame someone else. For what I have spent additionally so far on my Hawk I could have almost bought a CSC but I like wrenching. Another option if you have decent credit is just go get a new Japanese bike for less than $115/mo. It will probably last you the next 20 years with minimal maintenance and repair. Example: https://www.teamcharlottemotorsports...=xNewInventory My Hawk Upgrades: Shinko Enduro Tires with HD Tubes Mikuni Carb with new jets Aftermarket exhaust with fiberglass wrap Digital gauge cluster New grips LED headlight and tail light Last edited by BBOWL10; 01-04-2019 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Link added
	2