Hawk DLX vs Brozz 250

[tknj99]

Hi all,

I've been doing much research lately on the 250 dual-sports and have narrowed down now to either the Hawk DLX or Brozz/Recon with a $2k budget max that id like to maintain.
What i have noticed as a common comparison has been between the base Hawk and the Brozz but not so much between the DLX and the Brozz.
The Motocheez has the Brozz edging out the Hawk but one of the factors is value and the comparison was done when the Brozz was $1750 and the Hawk was at around 2k. Now that the Brozz is $2k as well, this metric will probably need to change.
I'm putting up this thread in an effort to help solidify my upcoming choice but to also help others who are in the same boat.. Please feel free to comment on each metric and let me know your thoughts, thanks

EFI: Hawk DLX is EFI while Brozz/Recon are carb. I'm leaning towards EFI as although i don't mind cleaning out a carb or changing jets, its not something id like to do regularly and like the thought of EFI, no choke, start and go like my current/former street bikes, id never go back to carb for the street.
But the chinese EFI may be a cause for concern as ive read of fuel tank leaks, electronic issues and would rather not have to worry about those things, so on the fence with this one. Anyone with the DLX running into fuel pump/ecu/electronic issues or is this a non-concern?

Counterbalancing: Brozz/Recon are counterbalanced while the Hawk is not. I have read commenters say there is not much difference while some have said there is alot of difference. Leaning towards the Brozz on this factor as i will probably ride mostly on the street with some gravel roads and trails thrown in the mix when i find some. But as both bikes need to be near max limit to cruise over 55-60 is this something that gets cancelled out at the higher rpms with both bikes being buzzy? Is the counterbalancing a must have if ill be doing 70/30 street riding

Seat: Ive read that the Hawk seat sucks and that it tilts you forward to the tank. Some have resculpted the seat while others may have lowered the rear shock. Is this still the case with the DLX? Ive also read that the Brozz seat is amazingly comfortable, leaning towards the Brozz on this metric unless the DLX seat has improved or the negative reviews are overblown

Forks: both have inverted = tie

Swingarm: Brozz swingarm ive read is better.. for adjusting chain only? or is it stronger. Is this a must have or when considering that both bikes are not meant for serious off-road, does this metric matter much?

Tires: DLX and Brozz have similar 50/50 tires = tie. Recon has aggresive knobby tires. I'm fine either way

Overall build quality: I've read that the Brozz has better overall feel and build quality than the Hawk. But ive read that the DLX has some improved items, does this quality statement still hold true?

Gearing: Brozz/Recon come with 17 tooth front while DLX is 15. As ill be mostly street riding Brozz/Recon win in this category but $10 or so on the DLX to remedy this, so not a big deal

Wheels: Brozz/Recon are 19"/17" with odd size tires while DLX is 21/18 with standard size tires. DLX wins here but for the riding ill be doing, should this be a major factor or does it not matter much as ive read overall geometry between both bikes is similar

Looks: for some reason im leaning towards the DLX in this category, maybe the bigger wheels, not sure, but it seems to look beefier than the Brozz

Fuel Tank: Brozz/Recon win here with the street bike style flip-up with key insert vs DLX having dirtbike style screw on cap

Performance: this would probably go to the DLX with EFI that is always adjusted for optimum results vs carb. But overall they probably perform very similar with similar top speeds when geared the same

Support: this one will go to the Brozz/Recon as ive read Peacemotorsports warrants the bike for 1 year parts and Jeff is very easy to work with for any issues while the DLX will have 3-month parts warranty (thru Amazon purchase) and not sure how that will work if issues arise

Offroad performance: DLX wins in this category due to 21/18 wheels that should go over obstacles easier than 19/17 wheels, again with light-medium offroad work, not sure how much weight to put on this metric or how much it will matter

I hope ive covered most items of comparison and hope to receive some feedback guiding me further to the optimal choice. Thanks so much

[RedCrowRides]

I am not going to go into all of the points on a one by one basis, i 'll go straight for the jugular and leave it at that . The Brozz is a step up in build quality, fit and finish from the Hawk, DLX or not . Being a frequent poster to this site i have already seen just too many posts regarding various issues with the Hawks EFI and related components ,and despite Amazons Warranty if you have issues , you are likely to be pretty much on your own. These are already $2k bikes and given the Hawk DLX's other add on improvements , there is no way imo they can stick a dependable EFI on there for $2k. I get EFI is nice but that perk has to come at the expense of other items / parts ,and i'm just not sure that an EFI offsets having cheaper / lesser quality

parts cross the balance of the Bike. The Brozz , and Peace Sports, both have very good reputations here on the Boards for reliability and support -and the bottom line is neither one of those claims can be made realistically about the Hawk DLX- again, too many threads on here about issues, and virtually no support. I'm not saying the Hawk DLX is bad , MotoCheez liked his after he got it sorted out ,just be aware that if you go that route you are likely to pretty much be on your own if issues arise. I guess what I'm trying to say is, EFI on the Hawk DLX seems in my mind to be sort of like that guy you know who put $2k worth of rims, on a $500 dollar car. So, i vote Brozz 250 , it is a solid balanced overall package and comes with a known support system with Jeff & Co at Peace Sports.

[JohnC]

Hi, This looks like a topic I can contribute to, being new on this forum.


I went through the same thought process last fall. Brozz 250, or the Hawk DLX. Went through all the same questions. Basically the same money. But for whatever reason I had more confidence in Peace Sports then other places with the Hawk. I did like the idea of a carb vs EFI, mainly because I like to fiddle with stuff. I did end up waiting until March to buy, for a personal reason, but ultimately decided on the Brozz. The transaction was hassle free. Couple of emails with questions and finally a phone call with Jeff. The bike was shipped the next day and arrived within 3 days.


It took me until mid July to get a plate because the DMV was shut down. I've put 800 miles on so far. Not a whole lot of riding time left here in Michigan, so the season will likely be over soon. I've not done a lot to the bike either. NGK iridium plug, 120 main jet, one washer to raise the needle, an LED taillight bulb, bar ends, and a bar support.



I have had one problem with the bike. The rear brake reservoir was leaking a little. So I took it apart and cleaned up where the hose fit, which fixed the issue. Changing the main jet took a little experimenting. Came with a 110, so I tried a 115 for a while. And settled on the 120. It's smooth throughout now. I'm at 600 feet elevation. I ride mainly on side streets and dirt roads as there few accessible trails near me.



I am thoroughly happy with the Brozz and would do it again.


John

[tknj99]

I really appreciate the responses thus far and am definitely leaning towards the Brozz in the Recon Green version with the knobbier tires.. also dig the wheels blacked out.
One nice thing i found out as well is that peace sells all the plastics so for $200 you can pretty much arrive at whatever color you like best. Now.. waiting to see if perhaps a holiday coupon code may be around the corner, as well as selling my current bike, a ZX14R, so will be funny to go from the fastest bike you can buy (next to the H2) to one of the slowest lol, but its all good.. after riding sporties and cruisers all my life it will be a very welcome change and ill be able to ride with my son and his Tao DBX1

[tknj99]

also thanks for the info on the carb.
where i live it shows: Elevation Range 453 - 830 ft.
although i can be at the Blue Ridge Parkway in 30 minutes and thats around 2500 foot elevation..
do you think the 120 main jet and washer to raise the needle will be all around good for me or can i get by with the stock config?
Jeff had mentioned that stock is a bit lean where they r at in georgia (1000' elevation) so im assuming that will be the case for me but curious how she will run out of the box.

[Bruces]

I think you are missing a bike on your short list ,the regular hawk if it’s something you can register in your area will save you a few bucks ,and has been well sorted by members here for several years now .My 2cents says the Dlx hasent been sorted well enough to spend the extra cash on it yet ,so far they seem to be doing fairly good ,but I don’t trust the efi when things go wrong just yet .Nothing bad to say about the Brozz ,but the small tires are a no go for me ,I ride dirt bikes ,not interested in small tire stuff ,so how much is a standard hawk today ?I would also like to add that any upgraded suspension on a $2000.00 bike is pretty much not ,these bikes are all built as cheap as they can to a price point ,I would rather have standard forks and tune them and keep $500.00 in my pocket ,than pay the $500.00 and find out the upsidedown forks installed are no better than the reg forks on the cheaper bike .I have dealt with chineese bikes a long while now ,and some came with piggy back shocks ,they were junk ,and we replaced them regularly .I took my band saw and cut them apart ,the piggyback reservoir was just a lump of cast aluminum ,they were completely solid ,just a decoration .Junk !and they were sold as an “upgrade” lol .

[tknj99]

Yes, i did also consider the regular Hawk and the 2020 version is running around $1500 on Amazon, for a good $500 savings like you mentioned. From what i recall some posters mentioned that the 2020 version has some upgrades over the 2019 version
http://www.chinariders.net/showthrea...ight=2020+hawk


"Burrito Tube for registration, tools included; NO beeper for blinkers; Carb starts and runs perfect (no need to run Half choke)"

But there are still some things i think which may be the same such as uncomfortable seat, weak swingarm, non-counterbalanced, weaker forks perhaps, non-adjustable rear shock)

I do like the regular Hawk especially the look and the 21/18 wheels and ofcourse the price but would love to hear comments regarding seat/non-counterbalance and vibration/front-forks etc.

Again ill be mostly street riding with some light offroad exploration here and there

[Bruces]

There is not a single item on your list other than the counterbalanced engine (a non issue anyway ) that can’t be handled with minimal cash ,a little time and knowledge ,and then your bike will be better than the other two for less money .Do some looking into Mega dans threads on setting up a hawk ( he has done it twice )and you will see ,he spoon feeds you into a very good bike for the money .

[JerryHawk250]

My 4 year old 2016 Hawk has well over 8500 miles. No major issues. Just tune the carb and unplug the exhaust. Keep up with regular maintenance and will roll for a long time. Use that $500 to add all the extras. If you through the sticky at the top of the Dual Sport section it will cover pretty much everything you need to know on all these bikes.

[tknj99]

Thanks guys.. something to think about and research further..

@JerryHawk250: thanks for the mileage report, thats great news and ive also read of a Hawk that had over 50k miles which is awesome.. most ive ever put on a bike was probably 15k miles over 8 years

@Bruces: when you say the non-counterbalanced engine is a non-issue could you please elaborate a bit... is it not buzzy or vibrating at higher speeds or just very little? Have you ever had a chance to compare to a Brozz/TT or other counterbalanced dual-sport?
My son has a Tao DBX1 which is ofcourse non-counterbalanced and i didnt really notice vibration or something that would annoy me whenever ive ridden it on dirt/gravel or the street but its only a 140cc so not sure if thats a good example or not.

I definitely see where you guys are coming from as well... im sure that Brozz even with the "upgrades" such as inverted forks, better swingarm, etc would still never compare to a Jap dual-sport or dirtbike on heavy trail riding and would probably wind up with something breaking along the way, and since my intent is not for a dirtbike for heavy trail riding, the upgrades are probably moot points id imagine

[culcune]

A thing to consider with the Brozz vs. either Hawks' 21/18" wheels is the variety of tires available for the Hawks is much wider than what is available for the Brozz. Once they introduced the Recon Brozz, it did make a more aggressive knobby available vs. what the Brozz has been coming with for years, now, but you are looking for more street, so having aggressive knobbies is a moot point for you.

I have always liked the look of the Brozz, and recall when they were available with standard forks and a rear disc brake, and I STILL wanted one. The one advantage of the Brozz, I feel, is that when you deal with Peace Motorsports in Georgia, it is a similar thing to dealing with CSC and their bikes. I have visited CSC once, and they are a dealer with a full-service repair shop that happens to ship nationwide. Of course you take care of the service yourself if you live too far from them, and their shop does assemble and PDI all the bikes they ship, so they are not concentrating on ALL repairs back there. While Peace seems to be trying to be similar to CSC, they don't ship their bikes assembled, unless they have since offered this service. The Hawks can come assembled depending on who you order one from (assuming you are mail-ordering one as there are dealers selling them assembled in some areas).

Me? I have been eyeballing the Lifan X-Pect 200; yes, oddball sized wheels and tires, and comes with standard forks and a rear drum, but Lifan have proven to have quality bikes (yes, taking the Chinese source into account), and in fact, this site came about because of a very popular bike available back in the day--the Lifan LF200-GY-5 which the name was shortened and known as the GY-5. Great street/light trail bike with inherent quality built in. I X-Pect the newest offering to be the same...

[Ina Ditch]

culcune is right about the knobby tires on the recon, for street riding you won't like them and I doubt if they wear well. others have said different but on my recon the inverted forks bite. one was leaking within days and they are way to soft for off road. folks have fixed this I hear by changing the fork oil and eventually I will do the same. the peace sports team are tops for service. after putting a few thousand miles on the recon since may it is still a solid bike other than the suspension. I live just above sea level and have left everything stock so far other than adding some auxiliary lights and have had no issues with stock jetting. the gearing is stock as well and after break in the top speed has been just north of 60 but on pavement it is not a pleasant experience on the knobbys. all that being said if I bought another bike in that price range today I might would gamble on a standard hawk, I say gamble because I don't believe there is a dealer who will stand behind a hawk yet so if you get a dud it's probably game over. also my riding is different from what you plan, I rarely get on pavement and when I do it is usually for just a few minutes. the stock gearing is fine for me but I agree if you are doing mostly on road you may want to change it up.
Long story short if you can work on a bike with help from here or on your own I think I would go with the hawk and use the money saved on some panniers and lights and since I am short a shorter rear shock and probably some handle bars and a folding shift lever. seat height was a factor in my decision but after looking for tires for the recon I envy the guys with 21" and 18" wheels. there is nothing wrong with the stock tires I would just prefer something even more aggressive.
Good luck.

[TxTaoRider]

Eh, just get the one you like the looks of. They are all basically the same, so get the one that makes you smile when you look at it.

[TxTaoRider]

As a side note, when I saw the regular hawks next to the Tao tbr7, I couldn't figure out why anyone would choose the hawk. It was $50 more, had a wimpy chain and gears (the tao had a gold 530 chain),the tao has a folding shift lever, rack, metal case plate,and better looking welds. When I got it home i discovered it had a nice sealed battery and led lights, oh and from what I read, it required less effort to assemble than a hawk.
But even better, I like the white plastics. - it makes me smile.

[tknj99]

Originally Posted by TxTaoRider

As a side note, when I saw the regular hawks next to the Tao tbr7, I couldn't figure out why anyone would choose the hawk. It was $50 more, had a wimpy chain and gears (the tao had a gold 530 chain),the tao has a folding shift lever, rack, metal case plate,and better looking welds. When I got it home i discovered it had a nice sealed battery and led lights, oh and from what I read, it required less effort to assemble than a hawk.
But even better, I like the white plastics. - it makes me smile.

Probably those more interested in the 21/18 wheels lean towards the Hawk id imagine