2017 Hawk 250 to 2017 honda crf250l

[Hawk 229cc]

well as much as I do like the hawk I pulled the trigger on the honda version,2017 crf 250l same year as the hawk 64 miles not a scratch $4300.00 ,now concidering some are paying 5899.00 for the 2019 ,because some people do pay retail,,for me it was just becoming to much ,not enough power to get up an go like the honda

I figure I will offset an get near 1k for my hawk ,then cost is $3300.00 ,I did look at the dlx but thought like others I been reading posts hear just not respondeing ,seems most are waiting to see if it will have problems,i gained 40 pounds since quiting butts last year,so 275lbs now ,the extra wide foot pegs near every extra for the honda is easer to get an cheap on ebay, so my hawk will be up for sale ,I have few spots that it just does not get up an go like the honda 25hp vs like 16hp,the hawk is a good bike ,I just have not had to the time to tear it down an make it safe,,

plus the counter balanced engine less aggressive tires an no cold starts,but still great in the dirt, there is more you can do to the honda for the extra money ,so I was able an will have the bike in about 1 week ,

[paulsstag]

That Honda sure is nice. Congrats on your purchase. Is it a demo model or a trade in that someone did not ride?

[Hawk 229cc]

Originally Posted by paulsstag

That Honda sure is nice. Congrats on your purchase. Is it a demo model or a trade in that someone did not ride?

thank you, it was a trade in ,the kid wanted a crf450l wich for the money seems very exspencive I was told ,I did see the 450l for sale at one sight for $6999.00 wich to me is just plain to much money still ,msrp on the 450l is like 10.000 ,I dont know why or how honda justifys the price of the 450l I sat on one feels the same seat is higher ,

40hp fine,but not worth 2x the 250l ,heck I figure with some power upgrades the 250l should get near 30hp,i may do a muffler upgrade only just the silencer to make it louder,otherwise will keep it stock other then wide pegs skid plate radiator grill hand guards an such ,oh an gel pad that goes under a cover for the seat ,makes there seats a bit more bearable for long rides,couse the worst thing on those bikes are the hard seats

there has been talk about putting the the CBR 300cc engine in the 250l frame wich is like 286cc,i am sure will cost more ,I heard a guy say it best ,we are at a point where most 400cc bikes will be all one needs ,after that its just more power then one needs ,Kawasaki has a super naked 400cc bike for under $5000.00 an goes like 110 mph,based off the ninja engine

[roundhouse]

Sweet, they are awesome bikes. Congrats

[Hawk 229cc]

Originally Posted by roundhouse

Sweet, they are awesome bikes. Congrats

thank you I was able to swing it ,after having some heavy adventure bikes in the past that are realy not off road ,I can do some off road too,but will mostly drive on pavement ,you can do almost anything to the bikes from making a dirt bike out of to a full on street bike ,can also do a piston upgrade,all the research shows there great bikes ,besides the hawk they are the most sold bikes pretty much,used ones can be had for desent prices

I will do a little at a time

[pete]

I have rented a CRF250L for a 3 week trip around Thailand / Loas / Cambodia..
leave on Sunday.... Be interesting to see how they go.... Not a Yamaha but I will
put up with the shame... Couldn't find any where on the net that rents a WR250R..




..

[Laganm21]

I too Sold my hawk for $1000 and bought a 2018 CRF250l, I really liked the hawk but I man as soon as i test drove the honda and felt the way it shifted and the little bit of extra power I was sold . and as a bonus I can always find neutral. But not everything with the honda is perfect, the suspension needs work , i will have to buy stiffer springs front and rear ($310) and get an exhaust ($350) and you have to buy a EJK Electronic jet kit ($250). so yeah I sure do miss the Hawks parts prices

[Megadan]

Congrats on the new bike and welcome to the world of Honda ownership. It's not really fair to compare this bike to a Hawk. It's a whole new level in all regards, and kind of becomes and apples to oranges scenario. For what you need it seems to be the right fit though, so obviously it was a good decision on a decent deal for that bike.

Originally Posted by Hawk 229cc

I heard a guy say it best ,we are at a point where most 400cc bikes will be all one needs ,after that its just more power then one needs ,Kawasaki has a super naked 400cc bike for under $5000.00 an goes like 110 mph,based off the ninja engine

I don't disagree with what you and the other guy are saying for the most part, but at the same time I do. Most 400-450cc bikes are adequately powered to get the job done in most scenarios, but adequate doesn't always cut it. I enjoy the fact that my silly overpowered VFR1200 can easily and effortlessly accelerate in 6th gear at 60+mph to quickly pass with absolute ease, or be able to quickly get myself out of dangerous scenarios.

In my opinion the one class of road bikes that offers the best of all worlds in terms of a balance of practicality and power, it would be the 650cc class of bikes. I.E., the FZ07, SV650, etc. Just like in the world of dual sport/off road the 250cc bikes like the WR250R and CRF250 offer the same. This is my perspective based on the experience of owning close to 2 dozen bikes ranging from 90cc with 6hp to 1200cc with almost 200hp.

[Hawk 229cc]

Originally Posted by Laganm21

I too Sold my hawk for $1000 and bought a 2018 CRF250l, I really liked the hawk but I man as soon as i test drove the honda and felt the way it shifted and the little bit of extra power I was sold . and as a bonus I can always find neutral. But not everything with the honda is perfect, the suspension needs work , i will have to buy stiffer springs front and rear ($310) and get an exhaust ($350) and you have to buy a EJK Electronic jet kit ($250). so yeah I sure do miss the Hawks parts prices

yes I know probley for off road ,but I wont to be doing any extreme rideing ,my hawk neutral is easy on mine ,the jet kit I would assume is if I want to do the muffler ,for the front forks like night an day

[Hawk 229cc]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Congrats on the new bike and welcome to the world of Honda ownership. It's not really fair to compare this bike to a Hawk. It's a whole new level in all regards, and kind of becomes and apples to oranges scenario. For what you need it seems to be the right fit though, so obviously it was a good decision on a decent deal for that bike.



I don't disagree with what you and the other guy are saying for the most part, but at the same time I do. Most 400-450cc bikes are adequately powered to get the job done in most scenarios, but adequate doesn't always cut it. I enjoy the fact that my silly overpowered VFR1200 can easily and effortlessly accelerate in 6th gear at 60+mph to quickly pass with absolute ease, or be able to quickly get myself out of dangerous scenarios.

In my opinion the one class of road bikes that offers the best of all worlds in terms of a balance of practicality and power, it would be the 650cc class of bikes. I.E., the FZ07, SV650, etc. Just like in the world of dual sport/off road the 250cc bikes like the WR250R and CRF250 offer the same. This is my perspective based on the experience of owning close to 2 dozen bikes ranging from 90cc with 6hp to 1200cc with almost 200hp.

Thanks Dan yes comparing is hard.though I am going to keep the hawk for few month before I sell it,no doubt we are headed to a spot alot like cars with 2.0 turbos with 275hp,

for those looking for quality at a great price point that 2019 z 400cc with abs mrsp $4799.00 Kawasaki just came out with ,a guy did a dyno on youtube the bike at 48hp ,can only be rated for like 44hp .had said they were doing a 400 ninja build .an said just mabey they should use the z400 2 cyclinder ,just seems. if I wanted that kinda bike ,I do think we will see the msrp go up on those bikes ,if I was 30 again ,I would have to try it ,just a lot bike for your buck
yes no doubt to the 1000 cc on up has its place too ,an from 250cc to 400 will be the norm in a few years for most riders in value bikes,

we also know kawi came out with 50k super bike that goes well over 200 miles per hour,again like some bikes ,like the Honda 450l way over priced for most,

one thing is for sure when comparing older bikes to new ,is there are so many things one can do the newer bikes for mods are endless it seems.

there is a review on Hondas 250l kawi 250klx an Yamaha wr250 comparing all 3 ,at the end there all desent bikes for me the kawi not any better with light brown color,then the wr250r at $1000.00 more nice bike ,but not worth the 1k more or more when you buy like we do

[Hawk 229cc]

Originally Posted by pete

I have rented a CRF250L for a 3 week trip around Thailand / Loas / Cambodia..
leave on Sunday.... Be interesting to see how they go.... Not a Yamaha but I will
put up with the shame... Couldn't find any where on the net that rents a WR250R..




..

enjoy hope its in good shape being in the 3rd world country ,there is a video of a guy on youtube takes this out to a dirt track an is passing some on better dirt bikes ,but he also is a very good rider of them all,one can do a lot to these bikes I will do the basics to dress it up a bit ,for mostly on road rideing ,atleast until a possible civil war break out in this country

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Hawk 229cc

for those looking for quality at a great price point that 2019 z 400cc with abs mrsp $4799.00 Kawasaki just came out with ,a guy did a dyno on youtube the bike at 48hp ,can only be rated for like 44hp .had said they were doing a 400 ninja build .an said just mabey they should use the z400 2 cyclinder ,just seems. if I wanted that kinda bike ,I do think we will see the msrp go up on those bikes ,if I was 30 again ,I would have to try it ,just a lot bike for your buck
yes no doubt to the 1000 cc on up has its place too ,an from 250cc to 400 will be the norm in a few years for most riders in value bikes,

It's not just the displacement that matters when comparing bike engines. Cylinder count, cylinder layout, port design, intake design, cam profiles, etc all come into play.

If we look at the 2010 CBR1000RR and compared it to my 2010 VFR1200F in terms of power (ignoring the massive weight difference of 140lbs, a lot of which is from the shaft drive system and engine) on paper, you would think they would be almost the same in terms of performance.

They are both rated at 175hp and 170hp from the factory respectively. Where they differ is in the torque output and how they deliver that power The CBR engine is a typical super sport bike, designed to give you everything it has in the top half of the power curve (6000rpm-13000rpm). Compared to my VFR1200 engine, which may make similar peak power numbers, redlines much sooner at 10,200 rpm, makes its peak at 10,000, but the torque curve is literally almost a flat line from 4000rpm to 10,000rpm, and even as low as 3000rpm it makes the same torque that the CBR peaks at 9200rpm.

When you ride these two bikes you notice these differences. My VFR will pull like a monsterous tractor in every gear at almost any RPM. It hits with such force that you better be prepared for it. The CBR in contrast, while it does pull decently, will feel almost gutless by comparison until those RPMs get well above 6000. Beyond that point the bike is an absolute missile.

Similar horspower, very different delivery.

Heck, look no further than the 650cc class of bikes to see something similar. The FZ07 and SV650 make oodles of torque at very low RPM when compared to the CB650F/R, which is a 650cc inline 4. The CB650 is essentially a retuned Super Sport 600, so it feels weak compared to the twin cylinders, but once you get past 8500, where the rest of those bikes peak, it keeps making more power, and it winds its self happily to 12,500rpm, making 20hp more than any of its competitors.

[RedCrowRides]

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people are prone to bash Harley - Davidson

for the price of their Bikes ( and yes i agree some of them are stupidly over priced ,but not all of them by a long shot ) and then the subject such as in this thread comes up that the Honda CR450L is about 10k new - 10 k for a single cylinder 450?

There are several Models of far larger HD's that can be had for that money ( or less), yes they are two different styles of bike but in my mind unless it is some flavor of factory level race bike no 450 on this planet ought to cost 10k ,assuming it is not coated in diamonds and gold ,that is just ludicrous.the reality Honda and the other Makers have deluded people into thinking that price point is "normal" or "justified" just

makes it that much more egregious ,there is no way as many of those as Honda sells

that half that 10k asking price is not pure, unadulterated profit ,and imo that is what has hurt and continues to hurt Motorcycling as a hobby ,and for that matter what drove a lot of us to Chinabikes to begin with .

[franque]

I've been both a Harley and a Honda (motorcycle) mechanic. There is a difference in quality, the Honda's being much better. The 450 has a lot more up-to-date engineering than any motor Harley has ever designed (Porsche did the V-Rod motor).

The Milwaukee 8 is interesting, but the mechanical design aspects of that motor haven't been cutting edge since the 30s in radial aircraft motors. Additionally, Harley has the economy of scale on their side, and uses cheaper materials that are made in China. The 450 is made in Japan out of much better materials, and while Harleys for the most part have Showa forks (a company owned by Honda), their forks are mass-produced and probably cost Harley less than $500 if I had to guess.

The forks on the 450L are probably closer to $2K. The engine is basically a detuned 450x motor, which is a race motor. Honestly, I would rather have a 500exc, but even looking that the complexity of the 450's frame, as well as it being made from extruded aluminum (and being well-engineered, at that) makes it something that is much more expensive to produce than the Harley.

Harley's big twin frames are made with cast lugs, and IIRC mild steel tubing. The lugs haven't been changed significantly in ages, I think that some of the parts date back to 95, or even 85. Harleys are well polished turds, with outdated engineering. The 450L is in a completely different class, and it [I]is[I] intended to be able to be raced.

If you look at what a WR450F costs, a 500EXC, or any of the 450 MX bikes, the price is quite comparable.

When you're talking about larger Harley models, are you referring to the Streets and Sportsters? The Street is junk, and Sportsters aren't really good either (largely unchanged since 2005, before that 1992, before that 1984(?), and before that unchanged since 1957)... they're not exactly premium models. Comparing it to even the cheapest big twin is still $5K more, for something that is again not that good, and very overpriced. Harley's sales numbers attest to this.

Also, to add, the 450 is in a completely different league than the 250. I owned one for ~13k miles, and they're good for putting around town, but aren't really a real enduro in comparison to the 450L. The 250 uses budget suspension, a mild steel frame, and weighs about 60-70lbs more than the 450, and makes about 1/3 of the power of an uncorked 450L.

[Megadan]

I wouldn't even say the CRF450L has a detuned engine, but a retuned engine. It still makes close to the same power as the X, but with a different piston and ring design for better reliability, slightly different cam profiles and a slightly heavier crank and flywheel that just altered how that power is delivered. The result is a few less peak ponies, but a lot more mid range and lower rpm grunt for low speed stuff.

Yes, it's an expensive bike at $10,400, but considering it is only $600 more than the X, you get a heck of a lot for that few hundred more dollars. An engine that is going to be more friendly/easy on maintenance, better all around EFI tuning, a redesigned exhaust to meet emissions and noise standards (larger muffler and a catalyst), larger radiators for improved cooling for street and slow speed riding (aka dual sporting) with a thermostatically controlled electric fan, a dampened rear sprocket, thicker rotors, a completely different rear subframe to handle cargo, and probably the best factory LED lighting on the market all around. All while getting the same basic suspension of the CRF450R, including all of its adjustability, which is some top notch long travel fully adjustable Showa hardware.

You call it overpriced, but if you look into the engineering and just the sheer quality on the bike and the level of hardware you recieve, it's actually not that bad. It's not expensive without a reason. You aren't paying for 30+ year old technology and design that has long since amortized its R&D expenses like the XR650L, which is $3k cheaper.