TBR7 ignition system tests today

OneLeggedRider · 08-11-2019, 10:13 AM

Well after the bike gets delivered today the first thing we're gonna do is pull the intake boot off the head and inspect the o-ring, after that I'm gonna check stator output and resistance test the coil windings, and then go through all the connectors. The bike doesn't want to do anything other than idle. We've swapped the carb with the Hawk and no change. We've verified it's not tank ventilation. I'm also gonna see if it has a resistor plug and check the plug cap to make sure it's not a resistor cap. We've already tested it with the intake tube off, no difference. The valves are adjusted properly. Might even put my timing light on it.

We put a performance pipe on it and rejetted the carb. The bike ran perfectly for 4 days and the plug looked perfect. Then it started running crappy at WOT and progressively got worse as far as rpm and throttle had to be lower to run decent. And the plug was now looking lean. Till finally it would only run at low rpm with a pinch of throttle, and now it only sounds decent at 1500 rpm idle. Anything else it just pops, surges, and misses, even with the perfectly tuned Hawk carb.

Being a trained tech I know about what the stator should be putting out and static testing the coil, but I searched the forums for a couple hours this morning and there is surprisingly little information on both. I find it hard to believe someone hasn't delved further into the ignition system on these. Tako was the only one I could find that had any information on stator output. Either I'm searching the wrong keywords or something. Also I was disappointed to find out the direct ignition coil was a rigged up Ford part instead of bolt on. And why aren't there links for the stator, CDI and coil?

NzBrakelathes · 08-11-2019, 12:42 PM

I’ve posted a couple things - lack of interest seems to be the cause
I believe and check with hawk 75v AC at red n white wire at all 3 points
Yeah there are direct fit DC CDI units and connect the skinny black wire to black on the bike etc
I wouldn’t bother replacing a stator if only ign coil faulty - excludes fracturing shipping time etc

NzBrakelathes · 08-11-2019, 12:44 PM

Hall affect sensor may fail but wouldn’t that be at all rpm not only higher ?
Flywheel not loose?

OneLeggedRider · 08-11-2019, 01:10 PM

The bike isn't here to test yet but the stator is probably fine. It's been ran quite a bit in this condition and the battery seems like it's fully charged.

Merlin · 08-11-2019, 02:40 PM

If that is the bike you guys took swimming I would start at the ground wire and go from there checking all the electric connectors.

OneLeggedRider · 08-11-2019, 08:43 PM

The wrong sparkplug. The bike comes with a resistor cap and THE FACTORY installs a resistor plug! Thanks to Tako's kit we had a non-resistor plug.. I'll post more later but it was 3 poor connections and the wrong spark plug. He just took it for a 2 hour ride and it ran amazing the entire time.

NzBrakelathes · 08-12-2019, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

The bike isn't here to test yet but the stator is probably fine. It's been ran quite a bit in this condition and the battery seems like it's fully charged.

Bike doesn’t need a battery to run when AC CDI
Battery is just for lights n starter etc

NzBrakelathes · 08-12-2019, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

The wrong sparkplug. The bike comes with a resistor cap and THE FACTORY installs a resistor plug! Thanks to Tako's kit we had a non-resistor plug.. I'll post more later but it was 3 poor connections and the wrong spark plug. He just took it for a 2 hour ride and it ran amazing the entire time.

What does a resister cap look like? Or are they all resister?
Listings on these is just a plain plug etc n I’d think non resister everything would run fine as nothing serious that the magnetic field could or would corrupt.
My mate n I made a stupid mistake once n fitted non resistor plugs to a individual coil Nissan engine n took hours to work out why ran crap, long story etc and emf upset cam sensor
Fitted correct plugs n no dramas etc
Never really heard your case tho.

Seems my kits delivering good value?
I wonder if you might’ve mistaken the issue with #42 pilot jet due to this issue - just thinking if you had this issue all along that it might’ve screwed the test n tune results

OneLeggedRider · 08-12-2019, 07:07 AM

Well this is what we got, and keep in mind I'm using a cheap ($10) analog meter that's been bouncing around in my toolbox for many years. We checked the intake boot o-ring first, all good. Then got 14v at the battery at idle. Next was the stator, the Chinese don't seem to follow any certain color code, I'm used to seeing 3 yellow or white wires coming out of the stator. Lead to lead I got 16-19v and 75vac from the red wire. Isolated the rectifier/regulator and lead to lead resistance checked out good.

Now before I moved on to the coil there was dried mud in the CDI and turn signal connectors but they were still making a good connection, and Jay cleaned them up as best he could. The connector going to the rectifier/regulator wasn't even fully plugged in and came apart as soon as I bumped it. Same for the wire connected to the coil, it was just floating there and I don't know how it hadn't slipped off. And ofcourse it doesn't read power there with the ignition on until you turn it over. So then I had him pull coil off so I could test the windings.

The first thing I noticed was the steel cap was stamped 5K Ohm symbol. We had recently installed the plug from TXpowersports and I knew it was a resistor plug, so we dug out the factory plug and it was also a resistor plug (4.8K)! I didn't pull the cap off the wire but it tested 7.4K through the windings. Well Jay remembered there was a plug included in Tako's kit and sure enough it wasn't a resistor plug. We slapped everything back together and Jay took it for a 15 minute test ride.

I sat out on the porch and listened to it pull strong through all the gears as he was taking off. He come back grinning from ear to ear so we plugged the weep hole and he took off again for a couple hours. He came back all excited and telling stories about passing cars on the highway, wheelies, etc.. He was so happy with it he left his car here and rode the bike home.

A good end to a crappy story, and I wanna put the word out there for TBR7 owners, that if you've got the steel resistor cap you'd better check to see if the factory put the right spark plug in it.

OneLeggedRider · 08-12-2019, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

What does a resister cap look like? Or are they all resister?
Listings on these is just a plain plug etc n I’d think non resister everything would run fine as nothing serious that the magnetic field could or would corrupt.
My mate n I made a stupid mistake once n fitted non resistor plugs to a individual coil Nissan engine n took hours to work out why ran crap, long story etc and emf upset cam sensor
Fitted correct plugs n no dramas etc
Never really heard your case tho.

Seems my kits delivering good value?
I wonder if you might’ve mistaken the issue with #42 pilot jet due to this issue - just thinking if you had this issue all along that it might’ve screwed the test n tune results

It was still running good when we rejetted the carb, I think the coil was just getting overwhelmed by all the resistance it was pushing through, which means it wouldn't hurt to replace it. And yes, your kit is an excellent value that I highly recommend. But sadly that 42 pilot was way off and belching black smoke. We put a different pilot in and it ran great for 4 days before the coil started failing.

The cap is steel and looks like some junk they put on cheap lawn tractors back in the day.

**JerryHawk250** · 08-12-2019, 08:04 AM

I always like happy endings.

Next report will be a MIA of Jay , last seen riding a TBR7. lol

**JerryHawk250** · 08-12-2019, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

Now before I moved on to the coil there was dried mud in the CDI and turn signal connectors but they were still making a good connection, and Jay cleaned them up as best he could. The connector going to the rectifier/regulator wasn't even fully plugged in and came apart as soon as I bumped it. Same for the wire connected to the coil, it was just floating there and I don't know how it hadn't slipped off. And ofcourse it doesn't read power there with the ignition on until you turn it over. So then I had him pull coil off so I could test the windings.

This is the main reason I changed out my connectors to waterproof connectors. I found myself constantly having to clean them out. I found a few on my bike that weren't clipped in all the way. That's what it's always a good idea when assembling the bike to check every connection on the bike. You will be surprised on how many aren't clipped in.

OneLeggedRider · 08-12-2019, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

I always like happy endings.

Next report will be a MIA of Jay , last seen riding a TBR7. lol

You know it lol. He doesn't have to pick his boy up till 2pm today so I imagine he'll come rolling in about 1:30 to get his car.

OneLeggedRider · 08-12-2019, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

This is the main reason I changed out my connectors to waterproof connectors. I found myself constantly having to clean them out. I found a few on my bike that weren't clipped in all the way. That's what it's always a good idea when assembling the bike to check every connection on the bike. You will be surprised on how many aren't clipped in.

I went over the Hawk more thoroughly, but I had 5 months of bad weather to tinker with it before I could ride it.

wedooit · 08-12-2019, 10:32 AM

Hey one legged....2lz calls sitting on the porch a "bench buzzard". Thanks for all your info!

08-11-2019, 10:13 AM	#1
OneLeggedRider Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Stockport, Oh. Posts: 1,442	TBR7 ignition system tests today Well after the bike gets delivered today the first thing we're gonna do is pull the intake boot off the head and inspect the o-ring, after that I'm gonna check stator output and resistance test the coil windings, and then go through all the connectors. The bike doesn't want to do anything other than idle. We've swapped the carb with the Hawk and no change. We've verified it's not tank ventilation. I'm also gonna see if it has a resistor plug and check the plug cap to make sure it's not a resistor cap. We've already tested it with the intake tube off, no difference. The valves are adjusted properly. Might even put my timing light on it. We put a performance pipe on it and rejetted the carb. The bike ran perfectly for 4 days and the plug looked perfect. Then it started running crappy at WOT and progressively got worse as far as rpm and throttle had to be lower to run decent. And the plug was now looking lean. Till finally it would only run at low rpm with a pinch of throttle, and now it only sounds decent at 1500 rpm idle. Anything else it just pops, surges, and misses, even with the perfectly tuned Hawk carb. Being a trained tech I know about what the stator should be putting out and static testing the coil, but I searched the forums for a couple hours this morning and there is surprisingly little information on both. I find it hard to believe someone hasn't delved further into the ignition system on these. Tako was the only one I could find that had any information on stator output. Either I'm searching the wrong keywords or something. Also I was disappointed to find out the direct ignition coil was a rigged up Ford part instead of bolt on. And why aren't there links for the stator, CDI and coil?
	0

08-11-2019, 02:40 PM	#5
Merlin Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,107	If that is the bike you guys took swimming I would start at the ground wire and go from there checking all the electric connectors. __________________ Bashan Blaze Mods: Alloy Rim's, Muffler, Mukuni VM26 Carb, Foam Filter, Tachometer, Volt Meter,LED Headlight, LED Blinkers
	2

08-11-2019, 08:43 PM	#6
OneLeggedRider Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Stockport, Oh. Posts: 1,442	The wrong sparkplug. The bike comes with a resistor cap and THE FACTORY installs a resistor plug! Thanks to Tako's kit we had a non-resistor plug.. I'll post more later but it was 3 poor connections and the wrong spark plug. He just took it for a 2 hour ride and it ran amazing the entire time. Last edited by OneLeggedRider; 08-12-2019 at 05:38 AM.
	2

08-12-2019, 07:07 AM	#9
OneLeggedRider Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Stockport, Oh. Posts: 1,442	The results Well this is what we got, and keep in mind I'm using a cheap ($10) analog meter that's been bouncing around in my toolbox for many years. We checked the intake boot o-ring first, all good. Then got 14v at the battery at idle. Next was the stator, the Chinese don't seem to follow any certain color code, I'm used to seeing 3 yellow or white wires coming out of the stator. Lead to lead I got 16-19v and 75vac from the red wire. Isolated the rectifier/regulator and lead to lead resistance checked out good. Now before I moved on to the coil there was dried mud in the CDI and turn signal connectors but they were still making a good connection, and Jay cleaned them up as best he could. The connector going to the rectifier/regulator wasn't even fully plugged in and came apart as soon as I bumped it. Same for the wire connected to the coil, it was just floating there and I don't know how it hadn't slipped off. And ofcourse it doesn't read power there with the ignition on until you turn it over. So then I had him pull coil off so I could test the windings. The first thing I noticed was the steel cap was stamped 5K Ohm symbol. We had recently installed the plug from TXpowersports and I knew it was a resistor plug, so we dug out the factory plug and it was also a resistor plug (4.8K)! I didn't pull the cap off the wire but it tested 7.4K through the windings. Well Jay remembered there was a plug included in Tako's kit and sure enough it wasn't a resistor plug. We slapped everything back together and Jay took it for a 15 minute test ride. I sat out on the porch and listened to it pull strong through all the gears as he was taking off. He come back grinning from ear to ear so we plugged the weep hole and he took off again for a couple hours. He came back all excited and telling stories about passing cars on the highway, wheelies, etc.. He was so happy with it he left his car here and rode the bike home. A good end to a crappy story, and I wanna put the word out there for TBR7 owners, that if you've got the steel resistor cap you'd better check to see if the factory put the right spark plug in it.
	2

08-12-2019, 08:04 AM	#11
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,574	I always like happy endings. Next report will be a MIA of Jay , last seen riding a TBR7. lol __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	1

08-11-2019, 12:42 PM	#2
NzBrakelathes Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hell Posts: 2,408	I’ve posted a couple things - lack of interest seems to be the cause I believe and check with hawk 75v AC at red n white wire at all 3 points Yeah there are direct fit DC CDI units and connect the skinny black wire to black on the bike etc I wouldn’t bother replacing a stator if only ign coil faulty - excludes fracturing shipping time etc
	0

08-11-2019, 12:44 PM	#3
NzBrakelathes Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hell Posts: 2,408	Hall affect sensor may fail but wouldn’t that be at all rpm not only higher ? Flywheel not loose?
	1

08-11-2019, 01:10 PM	#4
OneLeggedRider Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Stockport, Oh. Posts: 1,442	The bike isn't here to test yet but the stator is probably fine. It's been ran quite a bit in this condition and the battery seems like it's fully charged.
	0

08-12-2019, 10:32 AM	#15
wedooit Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Pocatello, Idaho Posts: 794	Hey one legged....2lz calls sitting on the porch a "bench buzzard". Thanks for all your info! __________________ A family that works together, plays together, shoots and trains together, and sleds together, stays together. Second amendment! SkiDoo sleds, NOW 2 TTR225, and a BMS250. A couple of quotes (we are not farmers) "I don't get off the farm much" "Am too old school" I call the china bikes "the china syndrome".
	1