Brozz Fork Oil Change Fail - Help Request

[tknj99]

Hi all,

I went to change the fork oil on my Brozz 250 and followed the MotoCheez video verbatim, however, the bolt on the bottom of the forks would just spin on both sides but not come out. I know that i must have loosened them initially because they both starting seeping oil out which i had a catch can to collect and measure.

I realized that later that in the video he was using straps to compress the forks. I tried the same and was eventually able to completely removed the bolt on the throttle side and drain out over 250ml. However, no matter what i tried, compressing the forks, even adding washers to take up space under the fork cap, nothing helped and the bolt just spins either way and I can feel the insides of the fork moving along.

As a last resort and wha i now realized after reading others who had similar issues, i removed both forks completely and am draining them overnight.

My worry is as follows.. I tightened the throttle side slowly until it got very snug but the clutch side bolt as previously mentioned just turns under tension. I'm worried that if i dont do anything with these bolts that tomorrow when i go to add the new fork oil, i'll enventually find leaks going on from one or both of these bolts.

What is odd to me is that i cannot removed the spacer and spring, its like they are stuck from the inside bottom by something holding on to them.
I can remove the fork cap by using a 14mm ad then turning the cap off but still the rest doesnt come out of the fork tubes.

How can i ensure that both bolts are locked back into proper position to ensure no leaks when i refill with oil.

I've attached a few pics for reference,

Thanks so much guys!

Down but not out!

[JerryHawk250]

That's a bad video for fork oil replacement. If you read in the description he states it's not the correct way. But First off that's not a drain bolt. That holds the dampening rod in place. If you have a 1/4" impact drive you might get lucky and it will tighten back up as it will spin fast enough to make it grip and tighten. The best way to drain them is to take off and turn them upside down as you did.

[tknj99]

Thanks.. yes, i've tried compressing the stubborn form completely this morning and it still spins. I plan a trip to Harbor Freight to pickup an impact gun today and will report back.
Hopefully this thread will serve as a PSA for the next guy.
And just to be safe, on the working fork, i removed the bolt again and wrapped with teflon tape to be extra sure for no future leaks and plan to do the same if/when i remove the bolt on the problem fork.

After draining both forks overnite, it appears that i got 250ml out of the working fork and 200 or so out of the problem fork. Once i get that bolt out im guessing i may get some more but am wondering, do you guys fill them back with what came out of each or put the same in both? I already know my measurement is not exact as i did drip some out of both forks when loosening the bolts, guesstimating 10ml for each.
Is there any hazard to putting more in both (they both take 320ml dry) or having them topped off the same level but then they are not exactly in sync as far as quantity?
Thanks

[JerryHawk250]

I wouldn't put more than the 250 ml you took out. Test them out and if they are not firm enough add a little at a time. You need the air gap. The more fluid you add the smaller the air gap becomes and the firmer it will get.

[franque]

And, to add, the smaller the air gap, the likelier it becomes to blow the fork seals. Jerry's method is correct, use an impact. I wouldn't use teflon tape, there are supposed to be copper crush washers on the bottom, those, if torqued properly, won't leak. They're the same style as those used on brakes.

When you want to retighten, it might be easier to tighten the fork caps up on top, they will help keep the damper rods from spinning. You'll then just need to reloosen the fork caps before adding the oil, and then make sure you get the damper rods nicely bled.

[david3921]

The reason that it's spinning may be because the cartridge and fork tube are not aligned. When I took apart my Qlink forks, I found that the cartridge had flat spots on the end where it mates with the fork tube. Take the bolt out, pull the cartridge out, and look on the end. I bet that you'll find the same thing I did. If so, you have to align the flats on the end of the cartridge (male) with the corresponding flats inside the fork tube (female) before tightening the bolt. This keeps the cartridge from spinning.

Edit: I found the sticky I had over at MCM. Below is the picture of the end of the cartridge.

[tknj99]

Originally Posted by david3921

The reason that it's spinning may be because the cartridge and fork tube are not aligned. When I took apart my Qlink forks, I found that the cartridge had flat spots on the end where it mates with the fork tube. Take the bolts out, pull the cartridge out, and look on the end. I bet that you'll find the same thing I did. If so, you have to align the flats on the end of the cartridge (male) with the corresponding flats inside the fork tube (female) before tightening the bolt. This keeps the cartridge from spinning.

Could you elaborate a bit.. i tried the following today:
i found that i can remove the top bolt and curved washer from the rod.. once i did that i was able to remove the spring and then a spacer piece and holding upside down a large round washer came out also.
The rod sunk back down into the fork but i found that if i hold the fork upside down it comes back to the top for re-assembly.
Now, with the spring and spacer out and just the rod there, i found that it will spin freely as well..
I also see that under the rod, there is another rod type piece that is fixed to the bottom I suspect if i were able to get a hold of it I could remove the bolt. i tried jamming a painter stick down between the rod the inner tube but no luck.
Where is the cartridge piece that you mentioned and any other tips would be appreciated.. my biggest fear is that i dont remove the bolt or have a way to tighten it with the impact gun and then i have a permanently leaky fork.

[david3921]

Link to MCM;

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...highlight=fork

You'll probably have to join but it's pretty painless.

[david3921]

Originally Posted by tknj99

Could you elaborate a bit.. i tried the following today:
i found that i can remove the top bolt and curved washer from the rod.. once i did that i was able to remove the spring and then a spacer piece and holding upside down a large round washer came out also.
The rod sunk back down into the fork but i found that if i hold the fork upside down it comes back to the top for re-assembly.
Now, with the spring and spacer out and just the rod there, i found that it will spin freely as well..
I also see that under the rod, there is another rod type piece that is fixed to the bottom I suspect if i were able to get a hold of it I could remove the bolt. i tried jamming a painter stick down between the rod the inner tube but no luck.
Where is the cartridge piece that you mentioned and any other tips would be appreciated.. my biggest fear is that i dont remove the bolt or have a way to tighten it with the impact gun and then i have a permanently leaky fork.

I heard in the past that some have used a broom stick to hold the cartridge from spinning. You should be able to use a drill at it's highest speed (#2, on mine) with a chucked, cut off allen wrench to get the bolt out.

The cartridge is the internal assembly that you are trying to stop from spinning.

[tknj99]

Originally Posted by david3921

I heard in the past that some have used a broom stick to hold the cartridge from spinning. You should be able to use a drill at it's highest speed (#2, on mine) with a chucked, cut off allen wrench to get the bolt out.

The cartridge is the internal assembly that you are trying to stop from spinning.

I think i am understanding now that the rod or cartridge at the very bottom of the fork (which the spring slides only and is below the top spacer piece) is what needs to be locked in place in order to remove the bottom bolt.. by the way, im also realizing now may have been red locktited from the factory..ugh
thanks.. ill try the broomstick or whatever else i can find to wedge in there method

[franque]

There's definitely a chance that there are flats machined into the cartridge, but that would be the first time I've seen that, in >200 fork sets I've rebuilt as a motorcycle mechanic.

[tknj99]

Update: Great success! I picked up an impact driver from HF and proceeded to use my strap wrapped around the top and bottom of the fork to compress as far as possible and then in a matter of seconds with it in reverse the bolt was out. So happy!
I again proceeded to Teflon tape the bolt for good measure and using my Allen key torqued it back up tight and inserted 275ml in each fork which is the amount that i caught from each fork (not including the drips here and there).
So this should serve as a PSA for others with inverted forks.. DO NOT attempt to remove the bottom bolt as they are both red locktited on..
But if you do, impact gun is your savior

[JerryHawk250]

Well that good to here. Oh yeah, The little HF impact gets a lot of use around my house. Was a good excuse for buying a tool. lol

[franque]

Hey, it might not fully seal with the teflon tape, that's why I said don't use it. Medium strength loctite and the copper washer are sufficient, the teflon tape might break down and plug the little passages inside of the cartridge.

[tknj99]

Originally Posted by franque

Hey, it might not fully seal with the teflon tape, that's why I said don't use it. Medium strength loctite and the copper washer are sufficient, the teflon tape might break down and plug the little passages inside of the cartridge.

Thanks... i removed the teflon tape and blue locktited both bolts