Templar M A few questions

griizgrokz · 08-09-2023, 03:20 PM

So, I've read the Templar and KPX stickies, the former a few times. I'm working on the "War and Peace" sized Gargantuan Exa-thread for the templar x but I'm only on page 12 out of 100+. Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere.

Grease or Never sieze. My dad preached the benefits never sez(says). He was an electrician/mechanic/welder in a coal mine all his life (untill a coffee table sized rock almost killed him). So I used to use that stuff on everything from a axles to spark plug threads. That crap is a pain on the rump to remove from anything it contacts namely my hands. Is this stuff overkill. I've gotta go through the suspension linkage because a friend said he tighten that stuff good but after a ride the other day when I thought the rear felt unusually squirrelly I found the nuts missing on 2 pieces of linkage. I found two nuts to put back at tractor supply and was thinking about using a washer and either a lock washer or blue loc-tite. Probably the later as one part of the linkage is behind another and I doubt there's enough room for a washer and lock washer.

Should I use general synthetic grease, wheel bearing grease, or never-sez? The nuts I found aren't flanged nor do they have the rubber piece in them that some have to prevent them from backing out.

I lost one of the rubber bumpers that go between the exhaust and side plate. Any suggestion for something else I could use. I'm hoping I've got something similar like a spark plug boot I could cut and use.

My house is at 875 feet above sea level and I ride between 700 and 3500 and occasionally 5k feet. I've never experienced issues due to elevation changes in the past, will that make a difference? My jet kit is here and I was going to do the rejet. That kit was 10 bucks, oh I bought some screws to replace the studs holding the bowl on the carb. Some are just buying anibbi and jetting it (or not). Is there any benefit to over of these carbs? I mean I've got a Dremel to do any polishing and stuff if necessary.. But if I thought id get a significant power increase I'd do that. A few on here Thumper for one (who seemsto know his shit) has simply rejetted...

My 5 speed M desperately needs that 6th gear and certainly a little higher gearing. Once I'm up to 45 or 50i let off because it's winding pretty hard. Since I'm still in the break-in period (less than 10 miles) I'm not running it hard. I try to stay under 6k rpm. How much difference will the 14 tooth front pulley make? That seems most economical because there's enough adjustment inn the chain that I wouldn't have to add links or remove them (in the case of the smaller back pulley). I might get a smaller rear pulley but only after I need a chain and or pulley replacement.

Lastly, I've increased preload using a metal punch and rubber mallet. I've moved it about 1.25 inches and have about 2 or 2.5 more adjustment left. I've tore that lower ring all to hell doing this and need to adjust more any suggestions? I wish I'd bought a cheap spanner set. I'm going to try to find something softer to hammer it today if possible and if it'll work. Right now it's getting hard to turn, but I don't have it on a stand. Would that help make adjustment easier?

Thanks everyone for all the info posted.

PS. The gas station near my house claims to sell 100% gas va 10 ethanol for about 50 cents more. Still 87 octane though. People recommend real gas and or high-test for my Sthil weedeatera and other outdoor equipment. Should I bother with the "real" gas? I've ran 87 w/10% ethanol in my weed eaters and mowers without issue. One of my weedeaters is 18 years old and still runs fine.

Apologies if these have all been discussed our beat to death in other threads. I can't search threads on my mobile device. Also Tapatalk has a ChinaRiders group/join button listed does anyone use that app?

Thanks again to all contributors to this site for your patience and for sharing your knowledge.

Have a better one everyone! Id been meaning to ask all this for over a week, even typing it up only to decide to not post.

GypsyR · 08-10-2023, 10:28 AM

Another of my bikes is a vintage Harley. I can tell you that any fastener on it that does not get a little bit of blue Loc-Tite on the threads will be falling out on the road later. I've had it MANY years and it has proven this over and over. Same with my other bikes though they aren't as bad.

Anti-seize helps you get a bolt off later. You want to use it in corrosive environments. Coal mines tend to be highly acidic. On high vibration machinery (motorcycles) you care less about getting parts off later than you do keeping them from falling off now. So anti-seize is rarely used on them. Maybe spark plug threads, but that's about it.

griizgrokz · 08-10-2023, 04:01 PM

Thanks for the reply,

I was thinking about using the never sieze on the slick part of the bolt where the linkage moves vs grease.

I put it on a 5 gallon bucket yesterday to hopefully make it easier to work on the linkage by myself vs having to get someone to knock the bolts through while I lift the rear.

Also tried try to tighten up the preload a little more. There's about 2 inches of threading left but it won't budge. It's it possible it's as tight as it'll get or am I doing something wrong?

Rereading my original post I see that the way I wrote it didn't turn out like I was thinking it so I'll work on that later this evening.

Thumper · 08-10-2023, 06:02 PM

When you buy gas, keep in mind that you are getting 70mpg. Paying for the good stuff doesn't hurt so much when you remember that you are getting more than twice as far as most people on a gallon!

Even the ethanol free premium is worth it. Your weedeater probably uses more gas per hour!

On the carb... You have the jet kit. I would just follow through with the OEM carb for now. It is in fact a smoothbore matched perfectly to the engine. Your elevation is exactly the same as mine. Bump to 120 on the main and 42 on the pilot. Also drill out the cap on the airscrew and try 2 turns out. My guess is that it will run great like that. Mine starts easily, and it is the same engine (5 speed).

Gearing? Well you can stick with the same front sprocket and just drop some teeth on the rear sprocket. I had to grind and dremel out to go to a larger front sprocket (14T). You will too (same engine). Look at Fast Freddie's info on the M rear sprocket. You might have to pull the rear wheel and measure the thing. Mine is a JTR210, but yours might be the JTR 897 he mentions.
Here they are:
http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/part/JTR897/
http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/part/JTR210/

Once you settle on teeth, you will find the sprocket for maybe $20-$25 bucks.
Did yours come with a 49 tooth sprocket like the X models? If so...
If you go below 46 teeth, it might limit your off road fun. 45 is available for both. 1st gear might be tall for tight off road stuff, or when you want to go slow. But you might want more road speed. Your choice.

Rear spring preload. I removed my shock to cinch down that spring. It is 350 lbs/inch and really heavy duty. I fabbed a compression tool so I could tighten the cuff by hand. No chewed up detents from trying to tighten it on the bike. Also, that thing is aluminum, and it is a BIG spring. The threads will be wearing from turning under load. I wanted to avoid that.

I always use a tiny bit of blue locktite on nuts or bolts (not the axels). It holds, but lets me remove them if I need to. This also allows you to set bolts/nuts with reasonable torque. For instance, the front sprocket cover... I never use locktite there, but got longer bolts to use all of the threads (on mine, the bolts were way shorter than the threads were cut).

Have fun

Thumper · 08-11-2023, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc3

Templar M is for the sad sacks that tried to save a few bucks and looking at the pictures and spec though there wasn't much difference between it an the X. HUGE mistake. If I wouldaknownthenwhatIknownow.... These bikes are a constant game of what bolt am I replacing this week. I would have been better off disassembling it the day it came in and buying a gallon of locktite. When rejetting it is a huge pain in the ass because there is no room to work and if you take the intake off you have to be super careful because the head is soft as dried mud. Can't say anything about the sprockets because I decided with the lack of the 6th gear and shitty shocks it is pretty much pointless to go to nuts on mods for this bike.

No. I have to disagree.
The 5 speed is an excellent engine, and lots of the components are still there. It is streetable, like the Hawk, TBR7 and other bikes, but it is a bargain at $1550 plus shipping at PSM (or similar price elsewhere). That is a $500 savings. And I would be surprised if this Temp M from Wuyi Zummav was not a good build. Nice bike on a budget.

bigdano711 · 08-12-2023, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc3

I never said it wasn't a good value, it is a ok bike for what it is. The complaints I have are to be taken in light of the price vs a bike that is $5-6k more. Expectations have to be tempered in the light of being able to replace the bike 3 times over vs buying a bike you won't likely have to wrench on.

lol, dude, you lost me right there. ANY bike you get, unless you can afford a mechanic, you WILL be wrenching on.

Thumper · 08-12-2023, 01:46 PM

Basically ALL of these bikes suffer from no documentation. Templar M is no stand out there! Your dismissal of the M was pretty categorical. Unnecessarily in my view. It is a low cost 20hp beast, worthy of wrenching on, and I am sure that it is boatloads of fun (for under $1600, brand spanking new!!!!!!)

I agree that for a few hundred more, the X is a great deal. I also totally disagree on the nuts and bolts. I disassembled, and reassembled my Templar X when it arrived. I set nuts and bolts with loctite. I have lost a couple of them that I didn't loctite, but I chaulk that up to my mistake!

Texas Pete · 08-12-2023, 02:06 PM

Even on a Yamaha super moto 250cc bike riding two up is very very sketchy on the suspension and on the brakes. Highway riding is preferred over surface streets due to less need to use the sketchy braking on the bike. Looks like fun, you could have your own dumb and dumber moments.

Fast_Freddy · 08-12-2023, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc3

For farm use or local in town use where you won't be going highway speeds, sure the M might be ok, if you can get over the shocks. Unless you are a 150lbs, the shocks are terrible, do not expect to be adding luggage or a passenger without bottoming out. Loading the bike down will result in other issues because the brakes are not great, and the top end is very limited on the M. Riding trails you are going to be bottoming out, and hating how spongy the M feels with shocks that are not up to today's standards.

Does the X's KKE suspension use stiffer springs than the M's KKE suspension? Both shocks have adjustable preload. Adjustable damping rates are for fine tuning suspension behavior but do nothing for heavy loads.

Thumper · 08-13-2023, 12:53 PM

FYI- the spring on the X's rear shock is 350lb/inch. That is printed on the spring in white letters. I haven't seen if the spring is labeled on the M. Maybe someone can confirm.

08-09-2023, 03:20 PM	#1
griizgrokz Join Date: Mar 2023 Location: Appalachian Mountains KY/VA Posts: 16	Templar M A few questions So, I've read the Templar and KPX stickies, the former a few times. I'm working on the "War and Peace" sized Gargantuan Exa-thread for the templar x but I'm only on page 12 out of 100+. Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere. Grease or Never sieze. My dad preached the benefits never sez(says). He was an electrician/mechanic/welder in a coal mine all his life (untill a coffee table sized rock almost killed him). So I used to use that stuff on everything from a axles to spark plug threads. That crap is a pain on the rump to remove from anything it contacts namely my hands. Is this stuff overkill. I've gotta go through the suspension linkage because a friend said he tighten that stuff good but after a ride the other day when I thought the rear felt unusually squirrelly I found the nuts missing on 2 pieces of linkage. I found two nuts to put back at tractor supply and was thinking about using a washer and either a lock washer or blue loc-tite. Probably the later as one part of the linkage is behind another and I doubt there's enough room for a washer and lock washer. Should I use general synthetic grease, wheel bearing grease, or never-sez? The nuts I found aren't flanged nor do they have the rubber piece in them that some have to prevent them from backing out. I lost one of the rubber bumpers that go between the exhaust and side plate. Any suggestion for something else I could use. I'm hoping I've got something similar like a spark plug boot I could cut and use. My house is at 875 feet above sea level and I ride between 700 and 3500 and occasionally 5k feet. I've never experienced issues due to elevation changes in the past, will that make a difference? My jet kit is here and I was going to do the rejet. That kit was 10 bucks, oh I bought some screws to replace the studs holding the bowl on the carb. Some are just buying anibbi and jetting it (or not). Is there any benefit to over of these carbs? I mean I've got a Dremel to do any polishing and stuff if necessary.. But if I thought id get a significant power increase I'd do that. A few on here Thumper for one (who seemsto know his shit) has simply rejetted... My 5 speed M desperately needs that 6th gear and certainly a little higher gearing. Once I'm up to 45 or 50i let off because it's winding pretty hard. Since I'm still in the break-in period (less than 10 miles) I'm not running it hard. I try to stay under 6k rpm. How much difference will the 14 tooth front pulley make? That seems most economical because there's enough adjustment inn the chain that I wouldn't have to add links or remove them (in the case of the smaller back pulley). I might get a smaller rear pulley but only after I need a chain and or pulley replacement. Lastly, I've increased preload using a metal punch and rubber mallet. I've moved it about 1.25 inches and have about 2 or 2.5 more adjustment left. I've tore that lower ring all to hell doing this and need to adjust more any suggestions? I wish I'd bought a cheap spanner set. I'm going to try to find something softer to hammer it today if possible and if it'll work. Right now it's getting hard to turn, but I don't have it on a stand. Would that help make adjustment easier? Thanks everyone for all the info posted. PS. The gas station near my house claims to sell 100% gas va 10 ethanol for about 50 cents more. Still 87 octane though. People recommend real gas and or high-test for my Sthil weedeatera and other outdoor equipment. Should I bother with the "real" gas? I've ran 87 w/10% ethanol in my weed eaters and mowers without issue. One of my weedeaters is 18 years old and still runs fine. Apologies if these have all been discussed our beat to death in other threads. I can't search threads on my mobile device. Also Tapatalk has a ChinaRiders group/join button listed does anyone use that app? Thanks again to all contributors to this site for your patience and for sharing your knowledge. Have a better one everyone! Id been meaning to ask all this for over a week, even typing it up only to decide to not post. Last edited by griizgrokz; 08-09-2023 at 03:34 PM. Reason: cleaning it up some 2nd, adding more info as if it's not long enough already.
	0

08-10-2023, 06:02 PM	#4
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,330	When you buy gas, keep in mind that you are getting 70mpg. Paying for the good stuff doesn't hurt so much when you remember that you are getting more than twice as far as most people on a gallon! Even the ethanol free premium is worth it. Your weedeater probably uses more gas per hour! On the carb... You have the jet kit. I would just follow through with the OEM carb for now. It is in fact a smoothbore matched perfectly to the engine. Your elevation is exactly the same as mine. Bump to 120 on the main and 42 on the pilot. Also drill out the cap on the airscrew and try 2 turns out. My guess is that it will run great like that. Mine starts easily, and it is the same engine (5 speed). Gearing? Well you can stick with the same front sprocket and just drop some teeth on the rear sprocket. I had to grind and dremel out to go to a larger front sprocket (14T). You will too (same engine). Look at Fast Freddie's info on the M rear sprocket. You might have to pull the rear wheel and measure the thing. Mine is a JTR210, but yours might be the JTR 897 he mentions. Here they are: http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/part/JTR897/ http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/part/JTR210/ Once you settle on teeth, you will find the sprocket for maybe $20-$25 bucks. Did yours come with a 49 tooth sprocket like the X models? If so... If you go below 46 teeth, it might limit your off road fun. 45 is available for both. 1st gear might be tall for tight off road stuff, or when you want to go slow. But you might want more road speed. Your choice. Rear spring preload. I removed my shock to cinch down that spring. It is 350 lbs/inch and really heavy duty. I fabbed a compression tool so I could tighten the cuff by hand. No chewed up detents from trying to tighten it on the bike. Also, that thing is aluminum, and it is a BIG spring. The threads will be wearing from turning under load. I wanted to avoid that. I always use a tiny bit of blue locktite on nuts or bolts (not the axels). It holds, but lets me remove them if I need to. This also allows you to set bolts/nuts with reasonable torque. For instance, the front sprocket cover... I never use locktite there, but got longer bolts to use all of the threads (on mine, the bolts were way shorter than the threads were cut). Have fun __________________ -2022 5 speed Templar X Orange, OEM 51T rear sprocket, 14T front sprocket -NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross), less than 10 hours on it
	1

08-12-2023, 01:46 PM	#7
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,330	Basically ALL of these bikes suffer from no documentation. Templar M is no stand out there! Your dismissal of the M was pretty categorical. Unnecessarily in my view. It is a low cost 20hp beast, worthy of wrenching on, and I am sure that it is boatloads of fun (for under $1600, brand spanking new!!!!!!) I agree that for a few hundred more, the X is a great deal. I also totally disagree on the nuts and bolts. I disassembled, and reassembled my Templar X when it arrived. I set nuts and bolts with loctite. I have lost a couple of them that I didn't loctite, but I chaulk that up to my mistake! __________________ -2022 5 speed Templar X Orange, OEM 51T rear sprocket, 14T front sprocket -NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross), less than 10 hours on it Last edited by Thumper; 08-12-2023 at 02:39 PM.
	0

08-12-2023, 02:06 PM	#8
Texas Pete Join Date: Nov 2022 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 578	Even on a Yamaha super moto 250cc bike riding two up is very very sketchy on the suspension and on the brakes. Highway riding is preferred over surface streets due to less need to use the sketchy braking on the bike. Looks like fun, you could have your own dumb and dumber moments. __________________ 2022 1/2 Templar X 250 - 6 gear model - 13 Front / 40 Rear Sprockets - #42 / #120 Jets - 1mm thick nitrile O-ring needle shim (removed) - Kenda K761 Dual Sport Tires - Sedona Standard Thickness Inner Tubes - Stock OEM battery, carburetor, spark plug still going strong - https://youtu.be/dhAYEKH-jFQ Texas Pete's Templar X 250 Torque Specifications Sheet Texas Pete's Engine Displacement Calculator Texas Pete's Tire and Rim Compatibility
	0

08-13-2023, 12:53 PM	#10
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,330	FYI- the spring on the X's rear shock is 350lb/inch. That is printed on the spring in white letters. I haven't seen if the spring is labeled on the M. Maybe someone can confirm. __________________ -2022 5 speed Templar X Orange, OEM 51T rear sprocket, 14T front sprocket -NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross), less than 10 hours on it
	0

08-10-2023, 10:28 AM	#2
GypsyR Join Date: Feb 2023 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 275	Another of my bikes is a vintage Harley. I can tell you that any fastener on it that does not get a little bit of blue Loc-Tite on the threads will be falling out on the road later. I've had it MANY years and it has proven this over and over. Same with my other bikes though they aren't as bad. Anti-seize helps you get a bolt off later. You want to use it in corrosive environments. Coal mines tend to be highly acidic. On high vibration machinery (motorcycles) you care less about getting parts off later than you do keeping them from falling off now. So anti-seize is rarely used on them. Maybe spark plug threads, but that's about it.
	0

08-10-2023, 04:01 PM	#3
griizgrokz Join Date: Mar 2023 Location: Appalachian Mountains KY/VA Posts: 16	Thanks for the reply, I was thinking about using the never sieze on the slick part of the bolt where the linkage moves vs grease. I put it on a 5 gallon bucket yesterday to hopefully make it easier to work on the linkage by myself vs having to get someone to knock the bolts through while I lift the rear. Also tried try to tighten up the preload a little more. There's about 2 inches of threading left but it won't budge. It's it possible it's as tight as it'll get or am I doing something wrong? Rereading my original post I see that the way I wrote it didn't turn out like I was thinking it so I'll work on that later this evening.
	0