Hawk Talk
 

This is a commentary on what I have noticed about the Hawk. It has sold very well, which is good for potential riders, reducing potential parts problems. And a large history of success in the hands of riders. Most people are very happy with their Hawks, but some have had minor problems. Now to the nittie-gritti. The engine is a very good one, originally made for Honda in China. It was originally a 125 or 150, so expanding it to 229cc is about as far as they can go. It is a pushrod single with a short stroke, which means it can sustain high rpm's without valve float, because the pushrods are very short and light. Caged ball main bearings with a roller bearing crankpin. It does not have a crankshaft counter-balancer shaft, although 250's really don't need balancer shafts. The plus on this engine for you is that the non balance shaft engines have a gear drive oil pump. The counter-balanced engines have a chain driven oil pump. Gear drive primary to the clutch and transmission, which is a five speed. Final drive is by 428 chain. The quality of the final drive chain is suspect. Another problem is in the quality of the fluids used on the bike. I would change the engine/transmission oil before I even started it for the first time to some high quality American 15W-40 oil. I would also clean the brake rotors with brake cleaner before I rode it for the first time. The brake fluid is also suspect. Change it out to an American/Canadian DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid. If, after a couple hundred miles, the front forks are not damped well enough, change that out too. People have reported good luck using ATF in the forks. Well that's enough for now. Later we will get into carburation an exhaust issues, and drive chain suggestions.

Great job Ariel Red Hunter. I have been waiting for an article like this regarding the engine,now I feel a lot better when I hold the throttle open.I have been very impressed so far with the quality of the bike being my first chinese bike.More info will be appreciated.

Good write up Red. I feel the same about the hawk, it's definitely an econo bike. It's cheap fun honestly, you can go anywhere with that little bike. There's issues here and there, but a lot of them can be avoided if you're the first time owner and set it up properly.

Yes, it is a superb little engine, almost perfect for its role in the Hawk. A wide mid-range that is what you need off road, and this engine has it. But it can be improved. The jetting in the carburetor is way too lean, the exhaust system reminds me of what a top engine tuner described the problem with my AJS 350. "It inhales really well, but it suffers from constipation on the exhaust side". The head pipe of the exhaust is awful - not to even mention the catalytic strangler that is in there. Even if you remove the cat, the poor flow at the very beginning of the head pipe and the gasket between the port and the head pipe are pretty bad. I personally would change the carburetor out for a Mikuni VM 26 (So much easier to re-jet), and buy and install a complete new after market exhaust system, not forgetting to use that Honda copper o-ring gasket next to the exhaust port. When riding off road, having an exhaust you can hear is much more useful than having a tachometer. I think the Magician is a considerably better on-road bike, a tach on the Magician would serve as something besides an ornament. Modifying the air box for more flow helps also. Moto-cheez has a youtube video showing how to do it.

The push rods are light but still have mass that is traveling in a
linar motion and has to be stoped then returned in the oppisite direction..
A over head cam shaft dose have a lot more mass but is dynamic & dose not require
stoping to change direction like push rods..


..

What have you done to the head pipe on yours Ariel ?did you find something that works off the shelf or build your own ?

Good write-up. I've had both versions now of the venerable CG motor. The balanced shaft is definitely more smooth across the RPM range, though the non-balanced motor is more simple with less parts. You can't go wrong with either version.

The Hawk is by far the "best 2 wheeled bang for the buck" on the planet (Storm is right there as well if you can get one). I'd say the biggest issue that the Hawk has is that RPS doesn't seem to be in a big rush to spend the $$$ to get it DOT approval.

Coming from CA, I can see that jumping through the CARB hoops is a hassle...but to ship these everywhere leaving it to "buyer beware" regarding street registration in most states is quite undesirable. If RPS would get this straightened out, they'd sell even tons more than they do now.

As Adam quoted: "Note that the Magician (like the Hawk) is not a DOT motorcycle and on-road registration is dependent upon your local DMV. There is a long-term plan to make both bikes DOT compliant, but there is a lot of bureaucracy involved with that."

This needs to be fixed. To me, it's the only real problem, even if they never do become available here in CA. 49 other states will be quite happy.

We don't actually sell to users. We sell to dealers, inform them of its status, and the dealers assure us that they know where they can and can't sell it. New customers who want it on-road need to ask the dealer if they can register it.

Some dealers are better than others. Some sell into states where they do not have an active license, which doesn't help. If your dealer doesn't guarantee registration, you should be wary. If a dealer says that they can get it on-road in any state, they are lying.

That said, there is a long-term plan to get DOT compliance, but it will require retooling at the factory. Since China would be spending funds solely for the US market, they won't do it unless they are convinced there is sufficient demand. Right now, the Hawk is doing well, so they are gradually improving it.

You do get what you pay for. The Hawk is relatively cheap, but it's not a bonafide motorcycle. We could easily fix the carb issue for California, but that would also increase the cost of the bike. Fortunately, we are going to be importing Lifan Motorcycles, and those will be better (and more expensive).

Yes, we recommend flushing the fluids. They are not intended for use, the fluids are in there to keep components from rusting/etc as it takes months to ship them across the Pacific.

Thanks for the response Adam. Being a CA native, I don't blame those who don't want to play the CARB game ($$$). It's strict and that's why there are only two available CB's here. The CSC TT250 and the SSR XF250. It's just the way it is and we're used to it.

It's the rest of the states that really should be dealt with though. CA is a HUGE market...but so are 49 others. I'm not sure what retooling may need to occur. Most other states don't require the smog pump and purge can to be road legal, as they do here in CA.

It will be interesting to watch and see how this unfolds. Keep us in the loop on any new news, please.

I haven't bought a Hawk. I am getting close to 80 years old. I'm not sure a motorcycle is a good idea at my age. What I type up here is a production engineers view of them. I hunt for information on stuff, then analyze it. You are reading the results of my studies. And the results of my experience. I've been riding since 1951. But I will tell you this; if I was going to buy a motorcycle this year, it would be a HAWK!! :p

Adam, I'm glad you brought that up. It is a long way from here to China. People, think about all of those enviornmental heating and cooling cycles these bikes go through before they even get to our shores. Everyone of those cycles can cause condensation. In other words, the oil, grease and brake fluid has contamination in them long before they get here. Protect your investment by changing all of the fluids and grease as part of the assembly process. You'll end up a lot happier.

What you say is true. And on a street engine it is important. And of course, racing engines. As to the advantages of an overhead cam engine for a dual-sport/enduro, my experience is that they are over rated. What is needed is low-mid range grunt, which is easy to get with overhead valves. It would be just as easy to get with an overhead cam engine, if it was designed to the same protocal. But they are not. They are designed to take advantage of their lighter valve gear at high rpms. And their power curve reflects this. I used to be involved in road racing, after my time playing with 500 Goldstars on American flat tracks. The AMA changed the rules (from 500 overheads vs 750 flatheads to 750 overheads),so I lost interest. I was a great believer in the advantages of overhead cam engines, so I bought a 250 Ducati. Did fairly well for a while until I got my plow cleaned by Moto Parilla's and Aermacci Harley Davidsons. Both of those 250's were pushrod OHV engines. The real advantage of overhead cam engines comes at 350cc and bigger, for road racing.

Hawk talk ll
 

Part two was supposed to be chassis run through, but not so. Your poor scribe has been called out to defend the humble, but useful, pushrod OHV 229.9 cc HonChi engine. This engine has been compared to OHC engines, and crankshaft balance shaft engines. And it has been found wanting. So let's look more closely at this engines plusses and minuses. It has plenty of both. At least from my point of view. Plusses: air-cooled. Simple. Light in weight. Less expensive to produce. Unit construction (engine and gearbox in one set of cases). Because it is a pushrod engine, more weight is low, in the cases. It has some kind of gee whizz electronic ignition. It is relatively light in weight. It is relatively easy to do valve adjustments on. It responds very well to exhaust and carburetor upgrades. Minuses: It doesn't have a balancer shaft. It doesn't have an overhead cam. It only holds about 35 ounces of lube oil. Lube oil also used for transmission. So this engine is almost perfectly suited for an inexpensive off road dual sport at the low end of the price spectrum. It is much less qualified to be an engine in a bike that is primarily used on pavement. It does not have the top end for that job. I'm sure it can be modified for more top end, but if you do that you will lose out on the bottom end and midrange. The Magician and the TT250 are better suited for on highway use. I don't like the Magician because it has a 16" rear wheel. I don't like the TT250 because it costs a lot more than the Magician, or Hawk. The Magician and Hawk are the bottom feeders in the 250 class. The Magician is a nice 90% 10% on-road off-road bike. The Hawk is a very nice off-road bike that is street legal, at least in many states. Perfect for riding 10-20 miles to the dirt trails you want to ride all day. If you stay off the interstates with it. Bottom line: you can have a lot of fun on a Hawk for short money.

Should add...can have a lot of fun with the Hawk if you can get it where you live lol

Hawk talk lll
 

An overhead cam engine. Hmm. there are trade-offs, as always. Engine is almost always taller. (Except certain weird designs, like the face-cam Chater-Lea). Very difficult to make as light as a push-rod job. If it is a chain drive, should have a 50% reduction to the chain. That way the chain runs at half of engine speed. For a racing engine, with the best parts obtainable, built virtually without regard to cost, taking the reduction in the chain drive system is acceptable because of less weight. We now live in the age of total mass-production. So an engine is now designed for a purpose, not just as a lightweight, junior, or senior class. Road bikes are the most popular class. So an engine is usually designed for a roadster, where acceleration and top speed is very important, especially in the lightweight class (250cc). Then, if the powers that be decide an enduro/dual sport is required to fill out the line, it should be no surprise that they look at the engine they are already building, for reasons of cost control. Perhaps they design a more tractable cam and fit a smaller carburetor. But the porting stays the same, which is really too big for an off-road bike engine. Of course, when cost is no object, then we have bikes like the KTM.

Good points and it has to do with riding need and preference.

The absolute beauty of the CG motor, both balanced and unbalanced, is that it's built to be bullet proof under the worst conditions possible. It's all about simplicity, ease of repair and long term reliability. Thanks to the pushrods, it does have a really nice mid-range that's a very useful, utilitarian powerband. It also sips gas. Another plus.

For instance, my neighbor has ridden my Q multiple times now. Granted, it's just a 200cc but it's an OHC Suzuki-type motor, a real Mikuni CV carb and it develops much more top end than the TT, even modified. I have it geared longer legged because the top end will pull the higher speeds. Q can pull 70 mph. Ridiculous for a little 200cc bike.

Then he rode the TT... His quote was "This is exactly what I'm looking for in a 250. More torque and useable power for our hills, dirt roads and curves." He really liked the power band and the friendly attitude of the CG motor.

These motors, while mod-able to get their true potential, need to be seen as what they really are. Simple, low maintenance, with long term reliability and user friendly power...that can haul your family of three and a goat to slaughter....on very little fuel.

Hehe good read, just like you knew what you were doing.

Sort of Hawk Talk
 

Someone asked me about my riding experience. I think I will start by telling you all the motorcycles I have owned, or had considerable experience with. First bike was a Francis-Barnett 125. Three speeds. Slow, slower, and damn near stopped. Topped out at just over 40 mph. Then I finagled my way into the ownership of an Ariel Red Hunter 350. Wonderful bike. Had good tele hydraulic front forks, and Antsey Link rear suspension. Came with a well tuned engine, like all Red Hunters. Wonderful handling, and beautifully built. 1949 year model. Had a Lycette saddle. Topped out at about 84 mph. Rode my first TT race on it. (Southern California TT's). Then a 350 AJS. Why? It had SwingArm rear suspension. The engine wasn't as powerful as the Ariel, but the swing arm rear meant the rear wheel was "hooked up" more of the time on the TT tracks, so it was actually faster around the course. It also jumped better. 3.50X19 front and rear. I ran a Pirelli Universal on the front, and a Goodyear Grasshopper on the rear. I did pretty well with that bike, usually finishing in the top 4. I was considered crazy because I used the front brake. Then there was a short romance with a H-D 74. It was a good highway bike, but a hard starter. Then I lucked into a 1938 Indian Chief that had been brought up to Bonneville specs. 80 cubic inches. Would really stroll. Ate H-D 74's for breakfast. Mucho fun.

I bought a K&N 33-2238 filter that somebody was talking about here. It is smaller than stock but it does fit. The sound reminds me of flipping the lid on a round air cleaner in an old car. Not that I ever did that..

Awesome drop-in hertz! I think I remembered someone saying they greased the gasket edge or something like that? Did you have to do that?

https://www.amazon.com/Duck-282435-H.../dp/B0025KUSXW

Since the lip wasn't as thick as stock I used that on the top and grease on the bottom.

I never just buy what I came for when I go to Runnings. I also think that blonde chick in the water trough wanted to go home with me. :tup:

Or stab you in the kidney at the first stop and rob your arse. Ain't I nice :hi:

And it had that strange (to modern eyes) leaf spring front suspension. You guys would be amazed at how well that front suspension worked. And how beautifully it steered. That year was either the last or next to last year Indian Chief with 18" tires, front and rear. I bought that bike for $400.00. Check what they bring now. I sold the Indian in order to buy a pick-up so I could haul a BSA Goldstar flat tracker back and forth. I wasn't good enough to compete in that league, so other people rode it. 60-40 split. Bike owner got 60% of the winnings. That bike was too expensive for me to keep competitive, so I sold it and bought a 250 Ducati bevel drive single for road racing. Did OK with it until the Moto-Parilla's and the Aermacci Harley-Davidsons started to show up. Those were both push rod singles, and were considerably faster than the Ducati's. I eased out of road racing when the Yamaha strokers started to come on. I didn't have a bike for a couple of years (I was involved with an Offy powered sprint car.) so I bought an AJS Model 14 CSR. That's a 250, and a very fast (and Light) one. Eventually, after I got married, I had a BSA Thunderbolt 650, then a Triumph 500 along with a Triumph Trophy 250. A couple of more years went by, then a Honda XL 125 (one of the hardest starting bikes I've ever owned) but fun to ride, a BMW R90S and that's about it. Oh yeah, a Yamaha DT175 and an iron head Sportster.

I don't think they can hold a knife.

Delicious, nice work with weatherstripping.

@hertz9753-I did the same thing except I used some black sticky back weather stripping I had. Worked great sealing it up. The K&N rubber seal area is just a little thinner than the stock.

Yet more Hawk talk.
 

One of the charms, generaly speaking, of 250 cc motor-cycles, is you can enjoy riding them really hard without annoying the minions of the law. Also depends on which state you live in, of course. Vermont has a 45 mph limit on two lane roads, Texas has a 70 mph limit on their 2 lanes, out in the country.

Now, back to the Hawk. I would immediatly change the engine oil to a 15W-40, or 20W50 before I even started it up. I use Shell Rotella because it is easy to get. I would run dino oil for the first 500 miles, then change it to synthetic. Synthetic deals with the heat these engines produce better, and lasts longer. It also deals with lubing the transmission better, because it withstands the slicing and dicing going on in the transmission better as well. Then I'd change the oil every 1000 miles. Oil really takes a beating in this engine, partly because there isn't very much of it.
Old timey trick is to smear grease over the inside of the air-cleaner box (not on the element!). Captures sand and other grit going in the box. What to do about carburetion and exhaust is up to you. I would change to a VM26 Mikuni, the one with a starting circuit instead of a butterfly choke. I would change the exhaust system completely. The stock head pipe is the worst I have ever seen for exhaust flow. Also change the gasket where the head pipe meets the head to the copper o-ring type. These engines seem to respond really well to changing the spark plug to the Iradium type. Be sure to check the valve adjustment. They seem to come from the factory over tight.

I bought the cheap 'fake' one carb.

You are that guy. Only two of us have tried the tried the K&N so far.

The weather stripping is used so the retainer can push down on the filter and the filter seals on the airbox. :tup:

Yep, I just used the square stick on weather stripping on mine. Great minds think alike ;)

Hawkie-Talkie
 

A word about single lobe cams and valve timing. Because the engine uses only one cam lobe does not mean that valve timing has to be concentric, e.g. 20-70 70-20. It depends on the shape of the valve lifter foot, and the location of the lifter shaft. For example, My Ariel Red Hunter had timing of 18-68 & 63-23. For those few of you who don't know what that means, it is inlet opens before TDC, inlet closes after BDC & exhaust opens before BDC, and exhaust closes after TDC. Just plug the numbers in, and you will know. I've not, so far, found a valve timing diagram for this neat little engine. If someone knows, share it with the rest of us. Timing should be a little bit more radical for the Hawk engine because peak power is at 7500 rpm. My NH (350) Red Hunter peaked at 6250 rpm.
The chassis: The Hawk has a rugged steel frame, with a 3.00 X 21 inch front wheel and tire, and a 4.10 X 18 rear wheel & tire. They have disc brakes front and rear. For whatever that's worth. In my opinion, not much, on a primarily off-road bike. They have quite good, but not the ultimate, front forks. You can improve front fork damping by changing the oil in the forks out to Dexron ATF. If you want even more damping, use Ford type Mercon ATF. On the question of the rear shock, a reservoir type shock is easier to change the damping on. Watch the swing arm bushings carefully, some of them have disintegrated in short order. If it was my bike, when they go, I'd change to urethane bushes. If I was real fussy, I'd change to bronze oilite bushings. Oilite bushings really tighten up the handling. Depends on how fussy you are.

You just answered my swingarm dilemma,mine was bone dry when I took it apart,I greased it all up, let's see how long it will last before I have to replace the bushings.I noticed some wear with only 700 miles on the bike.

My swingarm bushings were absolutely pulverized, fell apart like dust when I took the rear apart. They were bone dry as well, although I did do nothing but hard off roading with the bike up until that point.

I've heard that before. The bushing is supposed to be vulcanized to the inner metal tube, and press fitted into the outer tube I think. What did you replace them with?

AND, all may not be alright at the wheel end of the swing arm. So check to make sure that the axle is a good fit in the wheel adjuster. Some of them have been oversize.
Tire choices. The tire I would run at the rear is a Pirelli MT43, because here we have a lot of rocks and wet small stones in the creeks and water crossings in this part of upstate New York. And what we need is traction, or what English trials riders call "grip". A "security clamp/bolt" is a good idea, because you can run lower tire pressures. And you have to have your carburetion spot on for this kind of riding. What you don't want is wheel-spin. Remember, wheel spin digs a trench, and you have to climb out of that trench, sooner or later. You want to ride steadily through the water, making a nice Vee in the water. If the water is hub deep, you don't want to stop because when that cold water hits the front wheel bearings, the chill will encourage water to get into the bearings. The Vee in the water is to keep the wheel bearings dry. A trials type tire on the front also helps to keep you from slipping on the wet rocks. Stand up when crossing streams in order to lower the outfits center of gravity. If you have to ride very far on the road to get to where the fun is, you might try changing countershaft sprockets for the off-road part of the day. Buy a new chain (Unibear is a good one) and an extra (or two) master links with it. Buy enough chain so that you can get the longer piece for the on road sprocket out of one chain. I would change the bolts that hold the countershaft cover to allen screws, and carry the allen wrench with you. Quality American allen screws, please. I'm sure you will change the sprocket attaching bolts to allen screws as well, so you don't have to carry a ton of tools.

I don't know what to say about the picture. I think my Hawk was peeking into the shop when it was young and looking at the old Belsaw grinder and Foley belt sander.

Hawkie-Talkie part 2
 

I mentioned in passing that the Hawk has a 21 inch front rim, and an 18 inch rear. These are probably the closest to perfect sizes around these days for off-road use, and works well on-road as well, with the right tires. You will find you have all kinds of tire choices for those wheels. The tire choices depend on where you ride. Where I live (on the northern slope of the Adirondaks), trials tires (with rim locks) work very well. Wet rocks, tree roots, wet ledge, and they work pretty good on the road. Better than knobbies on the road. Trick with trials tires is low tire pressure, which is why you need rim locks. How low? Depends on your weight. Four to eight pounds front, six to twelve pounds rear is a place to start. I always used to carry a spare front and rear tube with me, just in case. Three tire irons as well. So you probably need to install a burrito tube to carry them in. I always carried a long thin bicycle pump on the frame for emergency uses. You can take some of the plastic trash off the bike to balance the extra weight, if you want. It will pay dividends to spend the money for high quality, heavy duty natural rubber tubes, like Michelins, for example. Natural rubber is tougher and more tear resistant than synthetic rubber is. If you ride a lot on sand, like the Mojave Desert, you may want to switch to a 19 inch front rim for more flotation. But that is an expensive alteration for a entry-level priced motor-cycle. I must warn you that it is imperative to keep all of those spokes snug. I use the short spoke wrench, because it is harder to over tighten them with one. Mark where you start and tighten every third spoke all the way around, then go around again on the next spoke, then again for the last ones. It will take you three trips around the rims to get them all tight. If the spokes are tightend regularly, and you still break spokes, order a set of spokes from Buchannon's and replace them one at a time just like you tightened the spokes, except not as tight until you have got them all in there, then go around three times and get 'm snug. You probably won't have spoke breakage issues if you never let any get loose.

I was my shop yesterday and I noticed a KX clutch cable that I bought back in 2000 for my 1980 125. It was still in the plastic and OEM from Kawasaki. It was high up and behind an ED11 tire.

[QUOTE=Ariel Red Hunter

Tire choices. The tire I would run at the rear is a Pirelli MT43,

[/QUOTE]

just as a matter of interest the MT43 is a trials tread patten
tire that can be used on the road..

Dunlop 803 or Michlin trials light are to soft and melt with any heat
from the seal... and are all over the place in the corners..

i replaced the dunlop 803s on my trials bike as there were only around
1/4 worn I put them on my XR250... melted the rear tire in 15km on the road..

stay with the pirelli MT43 for road use... or a newish trials patten tire out
is the "MotoZ mountain hybrid" it's diffrents to other trials patten roadable tires
is it has a rounded profile un like the square profile of a normal trials tire...
But if yer want insane traction
& don't ride on the seal use the Dunlop 803 or Michlin trials light..
rubber compond & case constuction are for pure trials use...
even high speed offroad use on hard surfaces can over heat them..

So what I'm saying if yer after a trials patten tire... be careful what yer buy
theres trials patten tires & trials tires.. they a completely diffrent animals these days
not like the old days when a trials tire was a trials tire...

...