howdy all, advice gratefully accepted as I know NOWT!!
 

hey.

Been off bikes for twenty years, got myself a little project bike, a P.O.R Apache 125 that's been sat in a field feeling sorry for itself for a couple of years.

I want to get it running and back on the road, but really want to DO something to it first, customise it, make it look a bit more unique. I've seen some ideas of what I'd like to accomplish, but knowing NOTHING about engineering (but being VERY willing to learn) I'm going to be asking for advice on here a fair bit I think!

here it is when I got it..

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/...psnpa5nodp.jpg

And here's the kinda thing I'm taking inspiration from...

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5kvzn7es.jpg

Yes, I KNOW it's a totally different layout with the suspension and the water cooler and all that, but the GENERAL shape, the stripped back street scrambler look, THAT's what I'd like to aim for. I'm going to need to hide a lot of stuff, re-position a lot of stuff, fabricate a seat unit, get a new tank, and GRIND a lot of stuff off!! And learn quickly. Can't wait!

Anyway. Hi all. Looking forward to picking your brains!

Welcome to the forum.

I don't get the Chinese... Who NAMES these things? A POR (poor) bike??

Oh well, moving on...

That CRF250 flat tracker is the cat's azz. Very cool. Nice inspiration for your project.

Brother Weld will chime in shortly with custom cafe suggestions; it's his thing ;-)

Looks like you will want 18" wheels laced to your original hubs, clubman style bars, lower suspension, delete the airbox, relocate the battery out of sight (I'd recommend a tiny lithium style one), a custom seat, maybe a tank off a 70's honda CB, an Edge II type tail light with integral blinkers, and a million other things! LOL!

Does the UK require a license plate the size of a barn door? That suckers gonna slow the whole bike!

at least it doesn't say P.O.S on the side lol

Hey, replies! Woop!

Thanks folks, to show you the level of ignorance you're dealing with I'll tell you now that I'm gonna have to Google 'hubs' 'lacing' and 'rims' to start with!

Oh, I forgot to say, I want to do it on a very tight budget too, ! I know, I'm asking too much for my own level of tech savvy, but I'm not expecting to achieve THAT bike, just an approximation. And I want to learn from this project, lessons I can apply to my next.

All comments are appreciated, all suggestions will be looked into and pondered over, and all comments about the ridiculous size of our STUPID UK number plates will be vociferously agreed with!

Having stripped all useless unnecessary detritus from the bike, I've found multiple nests of small creatures, a whole load of rusted on bolts, and a couple of spots on the frame that need welding, on the rear engine mount brackets..

Got a mate coming round next week with a couple of old small tanks we can try for size. That'll define the lines of the bike I reckon.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9bbf6f55.jpg

Does anyone know if the airbox can be taken off without taking the carb off? I've undone everything I can see, (3x cover screws, 3x box mounting bolts, 1x clip round the carb intake) but it ain't shifting yet..... There's not a lot of wiggle room in there.

Welcome; we are glad you joined us. :hi:

Do yourself a favor, and remove the carburetor before you remove the air box. The carb is neither difficult to remove, nor difficult to install once the air box is removed. You might also need to remove the shock absorber to remove the air box. ;)

Thanks spud, I'll do just that. Nice zong btw!

A Brit that says 'Howdy' and has 'Cactus' in his screen name??

What can I say, I've watched too many movies and I feel an affinity with y'all!

the rear is 18" now, front 21"..

Forgive my ignorance, but do wheels from cg's/xt's fit on these bikes? Or does it have to be from a P.O.S? I mean R.

Hollywood strikes again! :lol: We have cactus plants in Idaho, but only the small, Prickly Pear Cactus. Nevertheless, these cactus plants are pretty when they flower in the spring. :tup:

http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/q...4-16-11041.jpg

http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/q...4-16-11045.jpg

If you want to copy this Honda motorcycle, you probably want both wheels the same size.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5kvzn7es.jpg

In this instance, it's easiest to make the front wheel an 18-inch wheel. If someone knows of a Chinese motorcycle with an appropriate, 18-inch front wheel, you can get one of them. Otherwise, you can buy 18-inch Zongshen spokes from Taobao, in China. If you buy spokes you will need to disassemble the current front wheel, and have someone rebuild the wheel with the shorter spokes.

Thanks mister spud, you're starting to appreciate what sort of level of incompetence you're dealing with here, I need it ALL spelling out!!

Thanks for your help dudes, it's much appreciated....

:tup:

If there was any doubt before...you have a Chinese bike!!

I know that member 'Oengus' likes dirt tracker style bikes, but he hangs out on mychinamoto.com under the name 'MJH' far more than here for some reason.

BTW, welcome! And some of my best friends that live near me are cactus...

Welcome!

I happen to be building a similar machine right now. If you examine the rear triangle (or subframe), you'll see a stud on either side that doesn't seem to have a purpose. On the left side, it is located just above and to the left of the battery, and there is another on the right in a coresponding spot. The frame is almost identical to the early 80's Honda XR185 / XR200, and those studs would be used for twin shocks. If you want to get the bike a little lower (and more street tracker-like), twin XR200 shocks on the back and XR200 forks on the front is one way to go.

As well, the early XR200 gas tank is almost a drop-on fit, since the frames are so similar. I haven't sorted the front wheel out yet, other than lacing an 18" rim to the XR200 front hub and using the drum brake.

You and I can compare notes as we go along.

OOh interesting, all the bikes that caught my eye when I was looking for inspiration were twin shockers.....

I'll check that out tomorrow. The thing is , I REALLY don't want to spend a lot on the build, as it's probably not going to be a bike that I'll keep, I just want to learn something about motorcycle engineering, how everything works, the pitfalls to customising, all that guff!

Of course all that could change if I fall in love with it !

I forgot to mention that if you deleted the monoshock and installed twin shocks, the twin shock XR200 swingarm is a bolt-on deal.

Here's what I mean: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=12613

That's a VERY handy thread, good work sir. Any updates?

I'm not confident enough to go that far yet, and I can't weld, but I'd really like to see if you've gotten any further on those bikes yet?

Not yet. Bro-in-law and I were hoping to work on the bike over Christmas, but there was no time. He's gonna try and get back to my place in January, and we'll hopefully get back on the project.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2pzgxfnb.jpg

Just an update, for anyone who's following this thread, I've decided on the tank and bars, but I can't get her started... (see other thread!) I still need to source an 18" front wheel, but with the tank decided upon, I can plan out the fabrication of the seat and try to hide as much gubbins underneath it as possible...

I really want to make sure it's running right at every stage of the build though, so I know that if suddenly it's NOT running, the cause is whatever I've JUST been messing with!

Ok - more "progress"!

Started to strip all the electrical gubbins from their lazy assed untidy frame mountings and grind off all unnecessary bracketry to clear up the magic triangle..

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psyuyn25ef.jpg

And started to fabricate a template for an under-seat tray to house aforementioned electrics, including the battery.

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psqyuuaevj.jpg

Here's the tray bent into shape.. (from a piece of rusted steel I found in a skip)

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps1axceglp.jpg

And in situ...

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psezkbtgue.jpg

Decided on the tank to use, but it had a massive dent in it, and an opening at the back end that needed filling..

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psnh1ftp8w.jpg

So cut a metal plate to fill the back opening of the tank and cracked open the stinky filler..

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psyk8jqagw.jpg

Started fabricating a wooden ply base for the seat, and ground off a good 8 inches of frame from the back of the bike.

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psignzyfw8.jpg

And messing around with foam (cut out of the original seat foam of course)

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psq7ywq7op.jpg

Cut a recess for the cheap chinese ebay light and number plate bracket to fit into.

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psrygffv21.jpg

And where I'm up to right now, started stitching my own seat cover out of an old tan leather (real leather) sofa cushion cover I found rotting in a customer's garden.

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psqgwbiuf3.jpg

I know it still looks rough as hell, but I've never done anything like this before and I'm pretty chuffed with the way it's going so far. It's really taking shape, and what's more is that I've spent under £50 so far, with the only expenditure being a new gel battery and the back light... Anyone wanna sell me a front light dirt cheap?

I realise a 'street tracker' look might not appeal to most, but I like the way it's going!

Thanks for posting the update. You are making good progress. :)

Love it! I agree with you on cleaning up the triangle. The welds are just awful on these frames, aren't they? I have tons of grinding to do on my project.

absolutely love your ideas bro!!!! looking forward to seeing more progress!!!

What is the tank from?

good question!

it was kickin around in a car importers place along with a couple of other m/cycle bits and bobs, origin unknown I'm afraid!

Our local bikemonger reckons it might've been an old quad bike tank or something similar... Cute though innit!

street tracker sounds good to me. do you have a picture of the whole bike as it looks now? are u going to keep the handlebars?

It really has a nice shape for the look you're after. :tup:

Oh, I forgot... A couple of other things altered so far... I've relocated the ignition to just underneath the tank, with a custom bracket made from another scrap bit of metal..

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psj6qg4epv.jpg

Here's how it looks with the tank on...

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psgpta2koq.jpg

And I made a new bracket for some tiny clicks a mate gave me... (not entirely sure they work yet, that could've been a waste of time!)

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psbuhzpura.jpg

I'll take a picture of the whole thing soon, just glueing some leather right now!

I like the ignition location and the tiny speedometer. Looking forward to more...

Finally finished stitching and gluing the seat base leather today, the seat BASE is finished now, just got to cut and sew a pad to sit on..

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psjoihtl10.jpg

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psq9a3yqzy.jpg

And here's a pic of the overall stance so far...

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psqa8tp3wm.jpg

Quick question though, the tank has no tap, and it has two tubes coming out of it. I'm presuming one will be a breather pipe to the inside of the tank and the other will be fuel?
I'm prolly gonna swill it round with some fuel to clean it out a little, and I'll take note of which tube the fuel comes out of.. Have you guys seen this type of fuel outlet before? I presume (once again) that I'll just need a simple in line fuel tap with a filter before it?

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psywkx2qp1.jpg

Remarkable! Did you stitch the leather on a machine? I want to learn that skill. Please show us a pic from the side with the seat installed.

I would remove the gas cap and fish a piece of wire up through each tube and see where it comes out. That should tell you if one is a breather, or if one is reserve.

Dave just cleaned his tank by soaking it in vinegar, and I've heard that apple cider vinegar is the most effective. After you rinse it out, be sure to blow out as much air as possible, and then slosh some sort of lubricant around inside the tank to prevent flash rusting.

If both tubes are meant to be fuel lines, the shorter one is reserve. You'd either need two taps and filters, or one switchable inline tap and one filter.

Well.

I never in my wildest dreams have expected a "remarkable" from ANY experienced bike modder! Thanks man!

The stitching was done by hand, but I only had to switch one seam, the one that goes up and over the hump on the front edge. I've never sewn a thing before, and I knew it wasn't going to be neat so I made it a hidden seam, tucked away inside out. Then I glued the whole thing down so there wasn't any stress on my stitching!

The other seams were already there on the cushion in the original design.

I pushed some wire through the tank outlets, but it's such a tiny filler hole, you can't see where they come out, and I couldn't tell what was going on by touch. I'll stick a bit of fuel in and see if it comes out of just one outlet, that should tell me something, (although I'm not entirely sure what!

Here's a pic of the seat unit mounted...

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...psnofacl4b.jpg

That's genius. You made the original seams work with your design. That must have taken some careful planning.

Rather than fuel, you may wish to try water. I'd slowly fill the tank until water comes out of one of the tubes, and then plug it. Continue filling until it comes out of the second tube. The water that the first tube flowed out of is reserve. As mentioned before, get the tank as dry as possible after and then slosh some lubricant in it.

Thanks for the profile pic; I really like the shape. I especially like how you relieved the bum stop to accomodate the tail light.

Thanks brother weld,

I can't count the number of hours I've spent just stood in the garage LOOKING at the bike and working stuff out.. It's been quite an exercise!

And thank you for the tip about filling it slowly, that makes perfect sense to me. I'll be doing that next as I want to get her fired up again to make sure all is working as it should be.

What sort of lubricant should I use after swilling the tank out?

Not sure what you have available to you in the UK. I would use liquid WD-40, except that it's rather costly. I think that Varsol is another good option. You might also be able to use acetone, because it will evaporate in seconds in the hot sun. The point is to find something that will displace any remaining water and then be compatible with petrol; Varsol is petroleum-based, so I think it's suitable.

I get the process, and how you have to stare at it, visualize the negative space and imagine how you'd like it to look. You're doing a great job. May we see a profile pic of the tank?

You may indeed!

It's still a bit scraggy, I've a lot of filling and sanding to do yet... Open to suggestions on colour though!

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...pssd79aq5p.jpg

I thought I saw knee indents in the tank before. Did you fill them?

BTW, love your Monty Python avatar!

There was ONE indent on the side you can see, the previous owner had tried making his own indent but not bothered to do the other side... I decided I wanted it non-indented so had to fill the thing level!

(btw it's not monty python, it's noel fielding, he's about three levels more insane than python!