here is the chain side, as you can see i got greedy and went for too much drop, result is I had to heat the top frame rail and dent it with a ball peen, to make room for removing the bolt.

im glad i did tho as the seat is 32" high and so is my insem.

seat height

other side

seems i was holding the ipad upside down for some pics. embassasing.:doh:

here is a side view of the bike all reassembled.

i had to remove the plastics, seat, tank, air box, and move several wire looms out of the way to do this.

another decent shot of my bike. sideways this time! :crazy:

I think I put my neck out of place. It is also hard to see anything with the tiny pictures.

The high speed wobble is diminished/gone. could it be the geometry was off due to being soo jacked up in the rear?

From what I know a small change in the rake and trail of a bike can reflect bjg changes in the stability.

Dropping the rear a few inches would have a small effect on the rake and trail.

I allways blamed the tires for the wobble.

Rake effects trail, so raising the rear lowers trail and makes the bike easy to turn, but less stabil at high speed straight line. lowering the rear increares rake and trail and increases the sraight line stability, wile incresing the effort required to turn in on a corner.

Im going riding at Limestone NY Tommorow so i will get a chance to test it in a big way.

does anyone know the spring weight on the hawks rear shock?

I've found a dimensionally vorrect shock, with adjustable dampening and preload with a spring weight of 1200. got me wondering what the stock shocks spring is rated at.

my bike performed well this weekend, but I did find myself wanting to add dampening.

I wonder if anyone is surprised at the 1200 lb spring rate. I am, but only a little bit. The shock and spring work at a tremendous mechanical disadvantage on the Hawk. I wish Adam could get the factory to offer an adjustable damping shock as an option, or as a after sale part for those who want one.

Amen.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/11-KLX-110-D...FXLEIb&vxp=mtr

ordered one of these to replace the stock shock on the hawk. from what i was able to research its a good fit. ill report back after i get it and install it.

Great you found it and bought it. Lot of people want better damping in the rear shock, so tell us how it goes.

Got the shock installed on the original mounts and its sitting about the same height it was with the old shock and my loweried mounts.

its shorter by 40 mm. so lowers the bike a couple inches compared to stock.

Ill snap some pics in the Morning.

it has adjustable preload and rebound. as well as a shrader valve for charging.

it can be disasembled so rebuildable perhaps.

so this means the hawks shock was 320mm and must be very close to a 1200 spring.

I left the preload at the setting it came with, maybey half way, and set the rebound to 5 of 10 for an initial setting. the preload may be a touch loose but Ill have to ride it to tell.

the original shock was unable to cope with the increased leverage being applied. Riding at Limestone Saturday I fear has mixed the gas with the oil ruining the dampening.

the new shock required shimming to center it in the mounts. the shims I already had made for the replacement mount on the bottom worked fine, and i made 2 half as thick for the top mount. bolts were a match at 10mm thick.

Personally, I think the softest possible (means supports your weight) spring setting combined with very stiff damping works best off road, and even better on road. Am waiting with bated breath for your report on your experience with this unit.

in fact you should run the damping as soft as you can that works for the terrain yer riding...
to much damping dosn't let the shock re-exstend between close bumbs...
is the same as having the spring pre-load set to high as the shock not being able
to fully exstend between bumbs is pre-loading the spring for the next bumb...

prob not to much of a issue on a hawk but it also makes it hard to hop the rear
wheel for going over logs and the like...

set the sags....

here is a suspension spring rate calc....
http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_coil_spring_rate.htm



....

Could well be that you are right. Luckily, this shock comes with spring pre-load adjuster as well as variable damping, so he will be able to find out for himself. And then hopefully tell us his results. My way works well for me, but I'm pretty heavy.

pictures hopefully do a decent job of showing the height.

sitting on the bike i can touch both feet comfortably.. it fits me well.

so if this is 280mm from bolt to bolt, you coukd order any shock between 280 and th eoriginal length, to lower it a bit if you wanted. a 1200 spring and any other features you want, the bolts are 10mm at the shank.

a shot from the other side. I will tune the shock off road, tommorow.

wound up with the rebound set to 2. preload i havent changed, im happy with the setting it came with.

we will have to wait to see how durable it is. but it has taken a pounding at Limestone and still feels the same.

seat height is 32 inches with this 280mm shock.

Congratulations! You've found a good answer to the rear shock problem. Not everyone has the problem (probably due to different riding styles), but for those that do, here's a solution.

is there anyway you could post up your static and race sag measurements along with your weight? This would let everyone know how close the 1200lbs spring rating would work for them.

yeah its 32 static, sag ill have to get someone to measure while i sit on the bike, but i would guess its 1.5" lower than static, this is at the seat, riders position. i weigh 163 lbs. theres a bit of droop as well, ill figure out how to measure that.

i have no race settings, dont do that anymore..

if i pull up on the rear its comes up to 32.5", static ie its own weight its 32"' and when i sit down its 31". hope that helps. took a spin last night and wound up dialing in more rebound dampening. so now at 3 of 10. it felt a bit springy at 2.

how much wheel travel dose it have ?...

1/2" static & 1-1/2" rider... seems way over sprung unless
it has 4-1/2" of total wheel travel then it's right..
It must have more than 4-1/2" of total wheel travel...
Should be quite good on the road with those settings...






..

FWIW, I agree with Pete.

My measurments are from the seat to the ground. i never measured wheel travel, I think would,have to take the spring off the shock to do so.

The shock itself appears to have about 4" of travel, so more at the wheel, how much I dont know. but it isnt likely doubled.

how do you come up with 4.5" wheel travel? just trying to understand!

Keep,in mind the stock shock presented zero sag, even with me on it. had no spring adjustment, or dampening adjustment, and had the bike jacked up to 35" seat,height. a day of riding it with that shock was abusive to say the least.

Maybe my bike had a substitute part on it and others have a softer shock, but it was that stiff.

My problem was seat height and stiffness. so thats what I measured throughout.

The hawk will never have the suspension my yz250 had. that would drop 4" or so when i sat down, and still have plenty left.

All right. 4 inches at the shock mount. Don't see how it can be less than 6 inches at the wheel. Question in my mind is the spring rate. Never the less, you've done some very beneficial altering and testing, for which we should all be appreciative.

your quoted rider sag of 1-1/2" X3 = 4-1/2" should be your total
wheel travel if you have got the sags right.... but I don't think
you have as it must have more than 4-1/2" of wheel travel...

not all bumps come up so the wheel needs to be able to travel
down/out for the bumps that drop away..
you need travel in both directions.....



..

be very careful it could be come a habbit....





,

I thought only rabbits had the habbit.

At the risk of offending pete, I think he means that without adequete sack (or sag), the suspension cannot respond to hollows, only bumps. Which means the bike will sail over the hollows, breaking traction because of its in-ability to follow the terrain. Lack of sack is caused by too heavy a rear spring. Even my 1952 AJS 350 had two inches of sack, out of a total of 4 1/2 inches of spring travel, at the wheel, and they worked pretty well. That bike had "Teledraulic" rears, quite big around. Jampots was their nick-name.

so the rider sag should be a third of the total travel regardless how much sag the bike has under its own weight?

I sould measure the total travel and the sag at the shock, since I can see the travel there without having to exercising it. probly use millimeters.

would I account for the bump stop?

There is room to loosen the spring preload some without the spring becomming loose in the perches. I have not touched the preload setting as of yet. it is probly just some random amount by feel during assembly of the shock.


It explains alot about the way this bike handled with the stock shock and virtually zero sag. and perhaps why I'm so satisfied with it even if its not Ideal.

I'll try and make the recomended changes Tommorow Night as I'm taking it to Limestone again Saturday.

I have some footage of me riding/falling there with the stock shock, Ill take some more with the tuned replacement and we can compare.

I also added a bead lock to the rear tire and lowered the tire pressure to 23 psi for the trails, where the first ride it had like 35 psi to prevent tearing the stem off the tube. so that makes a big difference as well. Ill try to get the stock ride footage up on youtube tonight. and post a like here.

The difference should be obvious.

On the subject of the rubber bump stops, these are really part of the spring effect. The add a lot of "spring" rate at the end of the stroke to prevent sudden bottoming (or topping) out. So they are part of the suspension. Great job, adding a bead lock. If you have a bicycle pump, you can try even lower tire pressure on your Saturday ride. If you are still running stock inner tubes, front and rear, I wouldn't lower the rear below about 20 psi. What are you running the front at? If you are riding the bike to Livingston, be careful about lowering tire pressure. Long walk home, pushing a bike. But if you like the way it handles with lower tire pressures, buy Michelin heavy duty natural rubber tubes. They are a lot tougher. You are keeping you spokes nice and snug, right?

tires are at 23 psi rear and 25 front.. rear tube has been replaced. front is stock.

Were hauling the machines in a trailer to Limestone, its about 2 hours south on the Pensilvania border, about 5 or 10 miles north of Bradford.. "Oil Country". Its interesting to see the old and new equipment in the woods.
you do have to be carefull that stuff would hurt to crash into.

Are you happy with front bite? I used to run 18 front - 22 rear on my cow trailers. If you've got one of those 12 volt air pumps that you plug in the cigarette lighter, it makes changing tire pressures easy. Be sure and tell us how it goes - we all want to know if you keep getting more and more improved results.

I run between 8 to 12... got to love the tubliss's..




...

had 32 in the front and couldnt control it very well on wet grass. at 25 its alot better, i didnt have any slip out in the front. i might go lower in the rear for going over logs and such since it wont conform to the shape of the log much at all with 23 psi.

I didn't know where you rode before, as you have no location on your avatar (I guess that's what they call it). Any way, I'd buy another heavy duty tube for the front wheel, and, assuming you are not riding at high speeds, drastically reduce your tire pressures. Try 12 front, 16 rear, and see if you like it. Low pressure really helps on rocks, wet stony stream beds, wet tree roots and going over logs. Just remember to put the pressure back up when riding at speed. I hope this helps.

Try CO2 in yer tyres.... it's temp sensive..
as the tyre heats up the pressure will increase
go on to the dirt where less heat is generated
and the pressure will drop...


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